Best non prewar mainstream card to invest on

Rhotchkiss · #1 05-16-2023, 12:53 PM

Disregarding that I feel supplements are effectively newspapers/magazines, I think newspapers and magazines (not supplements) have the most upside for one huge reason- they are the only thing in the poll that �card company� TPGs have not yet authenticated.

Look at supplements - M101-2s were not worth much until BVG started slabbing them. Recently, PSA (the market�s �preferred� TPG) started slabbing M101-2s and the prices have gone through the roof. I believe the same phenomena has happened with photos (but not sure bc I don�t collect them). If/when PSA starts slabbing magazines, newspapers and similar publications, they, like supplements, will take off.

If SGC was thinking, they should charge into this market and establish a position (hint hint)

BeanTown · #2 05-16-2023, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Disregarding that I feel supplements are effectively newspapers/magazines, I think newspapers and magazines (not supplements) have the most upside for one huge reason- they are the only thing in the poll that �card company� TPGs have not yet authenticated.

Look at supplements - M101-2s were not worth much until BVG started slabbing them. Recently, PSA (the market�s �preferred� TPG) started slabbing M101-2s and the prices have gone through the roof. I believe the same phenomena has happened with photos (but not sure bc I don�t collect them). If/when PSA starts slabbing magazines, newspapers and similar publications, they, like supplements, will take off.

If SGC was thinking, they should charge into this market and establish a position (hint hint)

That�s a great point Ryan, and that�s why they were listed as two different categories. Supplements come out of papers but papers and magazines are not graded as a whole that I�m aware of. Grading does move the needle on this group which we have seen happen on pins, type 1 photos and now supplements. Early poll results show tile 1 photos in the lead, but they have taken off over the last 5 years and wondered if they still have the most upside now that the secret is out (sorta speaking)

Peter_Spaeth · #3 05-16-2023, 04:15 PM

I recall seeing M101-2s in BVG holders that I would swear were trimmed.

JustinD · #4 05-16-2023, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Disregarding that I feel supplements are effectively newspapers/magazines, I think newspapers and magazines (not supplements) have the most upside for one huge reason- they are the only thing in the poll that �card company� TPGs have not yet authenticated.

Look at supplements - M101-2s were not worth much until BVG started slabbing them. Recently, PSA (the market�s �preferred� TPG) started slabbing M101-2s and the prices have gone through the roof. I believe the same phenomena has happened with photos (but not sure bc I don�t collect them). If/when PSA starts slabbing magazines, newspapers and similar publications, they, like supplements, will take off.

If SGC was thinking, they should charge into this market and establish a position (hint hint)

Can you imagine the slabs they would use for these? They would be gigantic.

I just don't think there is huge growth in either as ephemera just never brings large crowds and is incredibly niche. We now have a populous born in the 2000's forward that have zero connection to newspapers or magazines as daily and monthly publications in physical form have effectively died.

I also can feel no joy whatsoever in owning a magazine slabbed up that I cannot even see or read the content. When CGC started the comic book grading I saw no enjoyment in that and have many friends that collect that refuse to touch them for the complete lack of enjoyment. I admit, they do have an important spot, but they are not as cemented as cards due to the inability to read them.

I would say personally that the answer is more than likely "none of the above" if I was thinking investment value specifically for value growth. These are often rotating the last few years at peaks hard to match, I can't see exponential growth worth a risk of large investment. My guess would be that clean visually displayable items like type 1s and supplements would continue to hold with the logical ups and downs that time will bring.

If I was to put something on this list it would be used/scored programs from important events. Tickets saw a large upswing due to the connection they had to a specific date or record. Programs are valuable but still could have room, and if there was a still displayable piece of slabbed ephemera after a change in policy, it would be a game program.

oldjudge · #5 05-16-2023, 05:17 PM

The good news is that they would make attractive serving trays. My vote is for pins. Some of the earliest individual images of HOF players are in the Whitehead and Hoag set. Some rare Cobb and Wagner�s are also in some early twentieth century pin sets. Ruth pins have already taken off and the ones I have mentioned have certainly increased in value, but given their rarity, nice images, and early player presentations I think they still have a long way to go.

BTW Ryan, they already grade magazines�comics, Playboys have been in slabs for a long time.

bcbgcbrcb · #6 05-16-2023, 05:37 PM

To me, photos is the obvious answer and the poll results bear that out. Surprised nobody who posted comments has opted for that choice yet.

Casey2296 · #7 05-16-2023, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

To me, photos is the obvious answer and the poll results bear that out. Surprised nobody who posted comments has opted for that choice yet.

My 1st choice would be photos then pins, Type 1's have increased in value quite a bit so pins my have more room to move.

rhettyeakley · #8 05-16-2023, 06:20 PM

Quality �Type 1� Photos are already so valuable as it is and more people are getting into them.

Personally, they don�t really do much for me as for the most part I collect things that were distributed to the general public and that isn�t Type 1 photos. They almost more akin to a piece of art than a collectible to me.

I have always loved rare player pinbacks like the Cameo Pepsin [Whitehead & Hoag], PM1, Luxello, Morton�s, Hermes, etc. and feel those have a lot of room to move if the needle ever shifts in their favor. Some of those issues are criminally undervalued given the rarity.

EddieP · #9 08-16-2023, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Quality “Type 1” Photos are already so valuable as it is and more people are getting into them.

Personally, they don’t really do much for me as for the most part I collect things that were distributed to the general public and that isn’t Type 1 photos. They almost more akin to a piece of art than a collectible to me.

That’s because photos ARE works of art. The problem with sports photographs are the TPGs and the sports memoriabilia crowd being influenced by them. So much so that the standards used to protect and preserve Works of Art are not used for sports photo. Which is a damn shame.

Looking at the prices of sports photos you could see the basic lack of understanding of photos. For example, calling a Type 3 and Type 4 photos “Original” is ludicrous. Having a Type 2 photo sell less than a Type 3 ( unless its a significant historical event) and Type 4 photo is stupidity. A book that is often recommended by others in this forum so happens to be written by people working at PSA; this just further compounds the proble.

BeanTown · #10 05-16-2023, 07:24 PM

I forgot they grade the magazines. If/when they do newspapers I have a nice Tribune one, when Dewey beat Truman as the headline. I don’t think you can go wrong as far as anything in the poll. Pins I agree with Jay on as far as rarity for late 19th century and early 20th century players. They are very tough to find without rust and having a paper back still intact.

Here are some items to represent all in the poll except sheet music. I don’t own the type 1 Cobb image.

Rhotchkiss · #11 05-16-2023, 05:48 PM

Jay, I know- I have a graded, Hefner Signed playboy #1 (below)

I said �card company� TPGs. I think PSA, SGC or BVG would need to get in the game for graded prewar papers/mags to take off.

Some pics - here are three mags I have and the only type 1 photo I own that�s not mounted on a cabinet or CDv

Mark17 · #12 05-16-2023, 07:29 PM

For people looking for an alternate investment to cards, consider this:

Many years ago, an AH focused on Game Used jerseys, primarily the older stuff. They named their company Grey Flannel. While other AH frequently offered vintage GU flannels, Grey Flannel specialized in them.

Last March, Grey Flannel held an auction featuring just bats. Their previous auction that included jerseys was November 13, a full 6 months ago. Since then, they've been taking consignments, gearing up for their next auction, on June 11 of this year. They put up their full preview the other day. Here's what's surprising to me... Out of 1365 total lots in their upcoming auction, only 21 are flannel baseball jerseys (or full uniforms.) That works out to well under 2% of Grey Flannel's total offerings.

Yes, I know, basketball and football jerseys have become a big part of the AH scene, and I'm not knocking this auction because there is a lot of really great stuff in it. My point is, flannel jerseys are really drying up.

On an anecdotal note, I got a 1960 Indians home jersey (Dick Stigman) on ebay for $1065 with shipping and insurance 2 1/2 years ago, during the so-called covid boom. Last weekend I was the underbidder on a very similar 1960 Indians home shirt (Walt Bond) at Heritage, that went for twice as much. Had I continued to chase it, who knows where it would've topped out.

Overall, across all AH, flannel offerings are getting scarce, which means values are bound to move north.

BeanTown · #13 05-17-2023, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

For people looking for an alternate investment to cards, consider this:

Many years ago, an AH focused on Game Used jerseys, primarily the older stuff. They named their company Grey Flannel. While other AH frequently offered vintage GU flannels, Grey Flannel specialized in them.

Last March, Grey Flannel held an auction featuring just bats. Their previous auction that included jerseys was November 13, a full 6 months ago. Since then, they've been taking consignments, gearing up for their next auction, on June 11 of this year. They put up their full preview the other day. Here's what's surprising to me... Out of 1365 total lots in their upcoming auction, only 21 are flannel baseball jerseys (or full uniforms.) That works out to well under 2% of Grey Flannel's total offerings.

Yes, I know, basketball and football jerseys have become a big part of the AH scene, and I'm not knocking this auction because there is a lot of really great stuff in it. My point is, flannel jerseys are really drying up.

On an anecdotal note, I got a 1960 Indians home jersey (Dick Stigman) on ebay for $1065 with shipping and insurance 2 1/2 years ago, during the so-called covid boom. Last weekend I was the underbidder on a very similar 1960 Indians home shirt (Walt Bond) at Heritage, that went for twice as much. Had I continued to chase it, who knows where it would've topped out.

Overall, across all AH, flannel offerings are getting scarce, which means values are bound to move north.

Good point Mark! It’s like RMY auctions bringing type 1 photos to the market on a regular basis and making them mainstream and now most all AHs are offering them. Hakes is really good on pins and Cuban items I’ve seen over the last decade or so. Lipset back in the 90s is what got me collecting postcards, which at the time was a nitche. REA seems to be the leader on 19th century items and all around memorabilia with HA being close behind them. Goldin and PWCC are pushing shiny high graded modern cards as their bread and butter.

It would be nice to see more specialty auction houses to come into the market with items that not might not be mainstream yet. Heck, I feel I could start a company auctioning off auction catalogs, that have been sent to me over the last 4 decades including hobby publications.

Jerseys, bats, trophies, etc… Can get some serious money and I consider more mainstream than items listed in poll above. Interesting to see supplements are gaining support in the poll for having a lot of room for growth.

oldjudge · #14 05-17-2023, 02:27 PM

Since, in polls like this, people tend to vote for what they already own I maintain that the best investments are sheet music and pins since the fewest number own them. Since this is a hobby of lemmings, once a few more deep pocketed collectors get interested in them the prices will skyrocket.

Aaron Seefeldt · #15 05-17-2023, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Since, in polls like this, people tend to vote for what they already own I maintain that the best investments are sheet music and pins since the fewest number own them. Since this is a hobby of lemmings, once a few more deep pocketed collectors get interested in them the prices will skyrocket.

+1
Pins & sheet music are also much scarcer than cards (on a whole)

Chris-Counts · #16 05-17-2023, 03:40 PM

I believe the values of pins will eventually surpass nearly everything because so many are extremely rare and attractive, and collectors are just beginning to realize this.

Snapolit1 · #17 05-17-2023, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Seefeldt

+1
Pins & sheet music are also much scarcer than cards (on a whole)

Lots of things are scarce. That doesn’t make them desirable.

Photos of Babe Ruth with horses for example are very scarce. Don’t make them desirable or a good investment.

Sheet music is interesting and indeed scarce, but don’t plan to retire on it. One persons undervalued is another persons “prices have hardly moved in 20 years for a reason”.

View Poll Results: Which non mainstream card is best investment
Supplements	28	18.92%
Type 1 photos	89	60.14%
Pins	21	14.19%
Sheet music/Papers/Magazine	10	6.76%
Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll

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