FS $12.000 1913 WG5 National Baseball Game Complete EX

[BobC]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Thanks for sharing--it's a remarkable grouping. I'm kind of with Bob on the Barker-back card, since there is a known Fenway Brew scoring card that carries a National Game back. I am curious, why are there two Bakers in your set--one with with the FB ad and one without? Are there 54 or 55 cards being offered? In any event, best of luck on the sale.

EDITED TO ADD: Never mind the count, I see you posted scans of 55 cards. I still wonder if the Baker FB card was an extra, header type card that was not supposed to be used in the "game".

Hey Todd,

In this case, I believe the Baker Fenway Breweries card absolutely was supposed to be in that set. I have a National Game set box myself, but it does not have the Fenway Breweries reference on it as Carol and Lenny's game box does, which can easily be seen in the image they included of it. The old SCD catalogs described this special version of the set as having only the Baker card, Score Card, and the game box itself, including and indicating a reference to Fenway Breweries, so that falls in line with assuming a Fenway Breweries game box would also include the FB versions of the Baker and Score cards. The head scratcher is why the set Carol and Lenny have includes the two FB cards, but that the FB Score Card is from the other set that was being put out at that time, the Tm Barker Game set. If memory serves, both those games I believe were actually printed/manufactured by the same company, at the same time, in 1913. So, the question is, could this single Tom Barker Game card have been accidently put into a National Game set at the factory by some mistake so that it was originally sold that way, or is it possible that after the set was originally sold and after over 100 years, could someone else have maybe replaced the FB Score Card for the National Game set that ended up missing somehow, and could only find a Tom Barker version of the FB Score Card to replace it with?

Doubt we'll ever be able to find an exact, correct answer to this question. But again, based on known and accepted knowledge of this set, it appears that it is technically not a complete National Game FB set, due to the one card being from a different game set. Still a very rare and huge item to pick up. If it were mine, i would be very happy to own it, and would probably look around to see if I could find the National Game version of the FB Score Card to replace the Tom Barker version, and technically complete the set then.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by BobC

Hey Todd,

In this case, I believe the Baker Fenway Breweries card absolutely was supposed to be in that set. I have a National Game set box myself, but it does not have the Fenway Breweries reference on it as Carol and Lenny's game box does, which can easily be seen in the image they included of it. The old SCD catalogs described this special version of the set as having only the Baker card, Score Card, and the game box itself, including and indicating a reference to Fenway Breweries, so that falls in line with assuming a Fenway Breweries game box would also include the FB versions of the Baker and Score cards. The head scratcher is why the set Carol and Lenny have includes the two FB cards, but that the FB Score Card is from the other set that was being put out at that time, the Tm Barker Game set. If memory serves, both those games I believe were actually printed/manufactured by the same company, at the same time, in 1913. So, the question is, could this single Tom Barker Game card have been accidently put into a National Game set at the factory by some mistake so that it was originally sold that way, or is it possible that after the set was originally sold and after over 100 years, could someone else have maybe replaced the FB Score Card for the National Game set that ended up missing somehow, and could only find a Tom Barker version of the FB Score Card to replace it with?

Doubt we'll ever be able to find an exact, correct answer to this question. But again, based on known and accepted knowledge of this set, it appears that it is technically not a complete National Game FB set, due to the one card being from a different game set. Still a very rare and huge item to pick up. If it were mine, i would be very happy to own it, and would probably look around to see if I could find the National Game version of the FB Score Card to replace the Tom Barker version, and technically complete the set then.

Bob, I have no doubt that the Baker with the FB ad was supposed to be in the set, but I am curious as to why there is also another Baker in the OP's group. In terms of playing the game, were there two Bakers-- a big play after all, either a Home Run or Double Play--or was one just inserted for the advertising? Does your set include 2 Bakers? Seems to me that if the set was only intended to include the ad card then maybe the original owner supplemented his set, and in that case, maybe he had access to the Tom Barker set and/or it got mixed up when he was playing the game with one of his pals who had that set. BTW, for grins I googled the name written on the box, and there was a Clyde Farwell born in PA in 1902, which would make him 11 when this set came out. A long shot for sure, but fun to wonder.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Bob, I have no doubt that the Baker with the FB ad was supposed to be in the set, but I am curious as to why there is also another Baker in the OP's group. In terms of playing the game, were there two Bakers-- a big play after all, either a Home Run or Double Play--or was one just inserted for the advertising? Does your set include 2 Bakers? Seems to me that if the set was only intended to include the ad card then maybe the original owner supplemented his set, and in that case, maybe he had access to the Tom Barker set and/or it got mixed up when he was playing the game with one of his pals who had that set. BTW, for grins I googled the name written on the box, and there was a Clyde Farwell born in PA in 1902, which would make him 11 when this set came out. A long shot for sure, but fun to wonder.

Hey Todd,

To my knowledge they only put one Baker card in the set, and the Fenway Breweries set should have had the FB designated Baker and Score Card in it. As you mentioned, the fact that Carol and Lenny's set includes two Baker cards makes me think, like you alluded to, that whoever once owned this set may have mixed and added in the second Baker card, for whatever reason. And it is also possible then that they swapped in the Score Card from the Tom Barker Game as well at some point. Who knows, some kids could have each had their own sets back then, and got a couple cards mixed up between them while playing together.

And for the record, I don't have a complete National Game boxed set that I purchased all together at one time either. I have most of the set, that I had picked up over the years card by card, and also lucked out and came across a game box for sale by itself one time, that I grabbed. I also separately picked up a Fenway Breweries Baker card as well, but now can't remember if it was for the National Game set or the Tom Barker Game set. Now I'll have to go digging it out to see which one it is, as it is going to bug me if I don't. LOL I'm pretty confident the boxes were made to hold 54 cards in each set, 52 cards with players or action shots, plus the Rules Card and the Score Card. I doubt the manufacturer would have gone to the trouble to make the Fenway Breweries set game boxes just a tad bigger to hold 55 cards, and include a second Baker card without the FB designation on it. Would make no sense at all, and would then beg the question if they also included a second Score Card without the FB designation as well then. We'll probably never know the real answer, but my guess is that Carol and Lenny's set had some kid who owned and played with the set, and he somehow got the Tom Barker switched/added in, as well as the second, non-Fenway Breweries, Baker card. Just my guess though.

And absolutely cool fact about the kid's name. I'll bet your right as being an 11 year-old, and playing with this set would make perfect sense for a kid that age back then. That is a neat discovery, great research!

[carolenny]

Description of scans

[carolenny]

Very fun to speculate about. Maybe the original score card with the National Game back suffered the scoring using pins as was recommended 😛. It's all as we purchased it, no changes were made by us. In fact we only recently noticed the Tom Barker back.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by carolenny

Very fun to speculate about. Maybe the original score card with the National Game back suffered the scoring using pins as was recommended 😛. It's all as we purchased it, no changes were made by us. In fact we only recently noticed the Tom Barker back.

You very well could be right, and someone later on added the Score Card from the related Tom Barker set to be able to say they were selling a complete set then. If nothing else, this dialogue is hopefully getting more eyes on your item, and letting people know how rare and valuable it actually may be. As I mentioned earlier, I've never seen one of the Fenway Breweries game boxes before. And this set includes one of the few Joe Jackson playing days cards that were ever issued, along with cards of many of the other star/HOF players from back in the day. So, you also should get interest from not just baseball card collectors, but from baseball and other sports related game collectors as well. Early baseball and baseball related games and items is another collecting niche, that in this case overlaps the card collecting hobby. Once again, a great item and set, with some true rarity as a Fenway Breweries related item.

[todeen]

I love this set. It is my favorite set of all time. Such great photos of all the stars. Much larger photos than the Polo Grounds set. Wish I could buy it. GLWS.

[carolenny]

Taking some sage advice, I think I will grade half a dozen of the stars, and it is a long shot, but I will try to find a score card marked with the Fenway Brewing and the National Game back, to make it a complete set. I've had it for 35 years so a few more won't hurt 👍👍