First Hall of Famer with a PED suspension?

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by nwobhm

….why do people believe that 50’s & 60’s players didn’t have access to steroids. Steroids have been around a long time….1930’s.

Of course steroids were available but how does that prove that players actually took them? We know what players who take steroids look like, what players from the 1950's and 1960's had that look of being bulked up?

[Seven]

I've been refraining from responding, because I have what is deemed to be a little more of a controversial opinion on the matter, when it comes to Performance Enhancing Users getting into the Hall of Fame. To answer the original question, I think Alex Rodriguez ends up being the first one to get in, with an official PED suspension. He's rehabilitated his image enough, and he's involved with the game still as he's apart of media coverage.

Frankly guys like McGwire, Sosa, Palmerio, Bonds, Clemens, and Rodriguez, should all be in. Steroids, HGH, etc, are not magical drugs. There have been countless players that have taken PED's and their performance did not improve. You have to have more than a modicum of skill for them to be effective. Otherwise players like David Segui, or Jason Grimsley or Jeremy Giambi would've become world beaters.

Furthermore, if you're of the opinion that one instance of PED usage automatically eliminates you from induction to the Hall of Fame, than half of the Hall would not be members. You cannot say "well Amphetamines' usage is okay, but Anabolic Steroids are not." A PED is a PED

Gossage, Mantle, Koufax, Mays, Aaron, Schmidt, and Stargell at one point, used some sort of substance whether it was a steroid, an amphetamine or straight up abusing Painkillers in the case of Koufax. Pud Galvin, and Babe Ruth used Animal Testosterone at various points in their life. Even if it was one instance, why are any of those above acceptable?

I don't think it's a case of "whataboutism" the owners certainly had no problem with Bonds roiding up and launching baseballs into the stratosphere, because it allowed them to line their pockets with more money. I certainly enjoyed watching him do it. If you want to put an asterisk next to their numbers, then by all means do so. But the Baseball Hall of Fame is a museum that recognizes the history and greatness of the game, scars included. The contributions of these men, to the game of baseball were important, they happened, and they should be recognized, and if it's with an asterisk, so be it.

It's a little ridiculous to me that the player with the most MVP's, and a slew of offensive records, along with the pitcher with the most Cy Youngs, are both not in the Hall of Fame. I'll end my rant here. Thank you for reading.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Seven

I've been refraining from responding, because I have what is deemed to be a little more of a controversial opinion on the matter, when it comes to Performance Enhancing Users getting into the Hall of Fame. To answer the original question, I think Alex Rodriguez ends up being the first one to get in, with an official PED suspension. He's rehabilitated his image enough, and he's involved with the game still as he's apart of media coverage.



Frankly guys like McGwire, Sosa, Palmerio, Bonds, Clemens, and Rodriguez, should all be in. Steroids, HGH, etc, are not magical drugs. There have been countless players that have taken PED's and their performance did not improve. You have to have more than a modicum of skill for them to be effective. Otherwise players like David Segui, or Jason Grimsley or Jeremy Giambi would've become world beaters.



Furthermore, if you're of the opinion that one instance of PED usage automatically eliminates you from induction to the Hall of Fame, than half of the Hall would not be members. You cannot say "well Amphetamines' usage is okay, but Anabolic Steroids are not." A PED is a PED



Gossage, Mantle, Koufax, Mays, Aaron, Schmidt, and Stargell at one point, used some sort of substance whether it was a steroid, an amphetamine or straight up abusing Painkillers in the case of Koufax. Pud Galvin, and Babe Ruth used Animal Testosterone at various points in their life. Even if it was one instance, why are any of those above acceptable?



I don't think it's a case of "whataboutism" the owners certainly had no problem with Bonds roiding up and launching baseballs into the stratosphere, because it allowed them to line their pockets with more money. I certainly enjoyed watching him do it. If you want to put an asterisk next to their numbers, then by all means do so. But the Baseball Hall of Fame is a museum that recognizes the history and greatness of the game, scars included. The contributions of these men, to the game of baseball were important, they happened, and they should be recognized, and if it's with an asterisk, so be it.



It's a little ridiculous to me that the player with the most MVP's, and a slew of offensive records, along with the pitcher with the most Cy Youngs, are both not in the Hall of Fame. I'll end my rant here. Thank you for reading.

I second your opinion. Well said.

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[todeen]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Of course steroids were available but how does that prove that players actually took them? We know what players who take steroids look like, what players from the 1950's and 1960's had that look of being bulked up?

A person can take steroids without bulking up. If that was the case every asthma kid would be shredded. The combination of steroids and modern weight room training is what has created the "ripped" and bulged look. 50s and 60s players trained differently and it resulted in a different physique.

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[nwobhm]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Of course steroids were available but how does that prove that players actually took them? We know what players who take steroids look like, what players from the 1950's and 1960's had that look of being bulked up?

We know what steroid users look like that use it specifically to maintain an extra 25lbs of muscle mass and little more. There are other nuances that can be identified visually to the experienced….but most would be oblivious.

If a person has an injury that kept them from the gym for 6 months a steroid cycle would allow them to get 6 months of atrophy back in a few weeks. No one would notice.

Think of steroids as a recovery tool.