Hey, pennant guys

Georgia30 · #1 07-19-2023, 08:16 AM

Appreciate the feedback everyone.

thetahat · #2 07-21-2023, 12:54 PM

New acquisition from 1937. Has �Charles Shear� tag on back. Does anyone have the �sister� Yankees version? I think there are a couple.

bocca001 · #3 07-21-2023, 02:08 PM

That's a really clean Giants pennant. Looks great.

Vintagedeputy · #4 07-21-2023, 02:28 PM

That Giants pennant is amazing.

MK · #5 07-22-2023, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetahat

New acquisition from 1937. Has �Charles Shear� tag on back. Does anyone have the �sister� Yankees version? I think there are a couple.

If that is from 1937, why couldn�t this Cubs pennant be from 1938? The spine and tassels seem to be very similar. Everyone identifies this Cubs version as 1945, but I�ve always thought it�s 1938.

perezfan · #6 07-22-2023, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MK

If that is from 1937, why couldn’t this Cubs pennant be from 1938? The spine and tassels seem to be very similar. Everyone identifies this Cubs version as 1945, but I’ve always thought it’s 1938.

It could well be from '38. The only definitive way we would know (outside of having a photo of the 1938 WS crowd) is if a fan dated it on the reverse. That used to be a fairly common practice, and is how I was able to pinpoint the great WGN "Vignette" series of pennants to 1951 (although it's conceivable their production run might've spanned a couple of years).

thetahat · #7 07-22-2023, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

It could well be from '38. The only definitive way we would know (outside of having a photo of the 1938 WS crowd) is if a fan dated it on the reverse. That used to be a fairly common practice, and is how I was able to pinpoint the great WGN "Vignette" series of pennants to 1951 (although it's conceivable their production run might've spanned a couple of years).

Yep definitely ‘51 and likely ‘52. The Cubs anniversary versions help pinpoint it, though there is not a known NYG “NL Champs” version like the Yankees and Dodgers. ‘52 explains the Dodgers. There is no known Milwaukee Braves version except for something similar in ‘57 with player names. White Sox had this Minnie Minoso version which could not be before ‘51, his first year with the team. Still using the blue jay for the Phillies, which was dumped before the ‘49 season but I suspect WGN didn’t have any better ideas.

thetahat · #8 07-22-2023, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MK

If that is from 1937, why couldn’t this Cubs pennant be from 1938? The spine and tassels seem to be very similar. Everyone identifies this Cubs version as 1945, but I’ve always thought it’s 1938.

Virtually identical. Can say with high confidence that your Cubs is a ‘38.

Also now speculating by the looks of this font that the maker of these might be good ol’ WGN …

Duluth Eskimo · #9 08-09-2023, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MK

If that is from 1937, why couldn�t this Cubs pennant be from 1938? The spine and tassels seem to be very similar. Everyone identifies this Cubs version as 1945, but I�ve always thought it�s 1938.

I believe this pennant is from 1945 based on the style. I have many of the Yankees versions and believe this version in the photo is the style from 1938. This was part of a group that sold all together and was described as being bought at the World Series. I have posted this previously as well.

Duluth Eskimo · #10 08-09-2023, 11:38 PM

Here is a photo of the back tag from this style that I have in my collection.

Duluth Eskimo · #11 08-09-2023, 11:43 PM

Here are two of the three 1937 versions. Obviously some condition issues with my �winner� one, but it doesn�t really bother me as much as it bothers others. Only the version with names has a tag on the rear.

perezfan · #12 08-10-2023, 12:32 AM

Very nice Jason! Awesome Yankees Pennants, and it was great meeting you at The National!

ooo-ribay · #13 08-11-2023, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Here are two of the three 1937 versions. Obviously some condition issues with my �winner� one, but it doesn�t really bother me as much as it bothers others. Only the version with names has a tag on the rear.

That Winners pennant is so cool. Had it fit into my collection, I would have grabbed it, too. It�s a �bird in the hand� situation. In no way does it stop you from upgrading if you find a better one. That�s basically my philosophy for any super rare thing I want.

Domer05 · #14 08-10-2023, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

I believe this pennant is from 1945 based on the style. I have many of the Yankees versions and believe this version in the photo is the style from 1938. This was part of a group that sold all together and was described as being bought at the World Series. I have posted this previously as well.

I agree with you, Jason. The style of Mike's Cubs pennant is more consistent with 1945 (not '38), based up its close resemblance to Yankee and Brooklyn Dodger pennants from the latter 1940s.

FWIW, I believe these Shear-labeled pennants from '37 and '38 were all manufactured by Trench and represent some of their first ever baseball pennants. Mike's Cubs pennant, perhaps from 1945, and also with a Shear label, strikes me as a natural evolution of that "insert ballpark name" artwork/series.

Domer05 · #15 08-15-2023, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MK

If that is from 1937, why couldn�t this Cubs pennant be from 1938? The spine and tassels seem to be very similar. Everyone identifies this Cubs version as 1945, but I�ve always thought it�s 1938.

Last week I commented on a post concerning MK's Cubs pennant; and my belief that it was from the '45 World Series. I still think it looks like it came from that era; however, I've come across some new research that puts that opinion in jeopardy.

MK's Cub's pennant bears a concessionaire's label for Charles Shear, 146 Park Row, New York. Similar pennants, previously discussed last week on this thread from the '37 and '38 World Series, bore the exact same label, down to the address.

Well, the 1940 Manhattan telephone book listed Charles Shear's address as 146 Park Row; however, six years later, the 1946 edition listed him at 150 Park Row. Had MK's Cubs pennant come from the '45 World Series, it's more likely the address on the label would be for 150 Park Row. Instead, it bore the address corresponding with the concessionaire's location in the late 1930s.

So, who knows Mike, it may indeed be from the '38 World Series after all?

MK · #16 08-15-2023, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domer05

Last week I commented on a post concerning MK's Cubs pennant; and my belief that it was from the '45 World Series. I still think it looks like it came from that era; however, I've come across some new research that puts that opinion in jeopardy.

MK's Cub's pennant bears a concessionaire's label for Charles Shear, 146 Park Row, New York. Similar pennants, previously discussed last week on this thread from the '37 and '38 World Series, bore the exact same label, down to the address.

Well, the 1940 Manhattan telephone book listed Charles Shear's address as 146 Park Row; however, six years later, the 1946 edition listed him at 150 Park Row. Had MK's Cubs pennant come from the '45 World Series, it's more likely the address on the label would be for 150 Park Row. Instead, it bore the address corresponding with the concessionaire's location in the late 1930s.

So, who knows Mike, it may indeed be from the '38 World Series after all?

As more circumstantial evidence, I give you one of these where someone painted the year 1938 at the end. Granted it could have been done years later, but more than likely it was done shortly after purchase. And yes it has the Shear label with the 146 Park Row address.

perezfan · #17 08-15-2023, 09:32 PM

Changing gears a bit...

If the "winning" bidder of this Indians pennant sees this post, start applying for your refund with Heritage ASAP. You just overpaid by $610 for a Mitchell & Ness Repro.

Hope whoever "won it" sees this and gets proper resolution!

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c...uction-120115#

thetahat · #18 08-15-2023, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

Changing gears a bit...

If the "winning" bidder of this Indians pennant sees this post, start applying for your refund with Heritage ASAP. You just overpaid by $610 for a Mitchell & Ness Repro.

Hope whoever "won it" sees this and gets proper resolution!

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c...uction-120115#

I wonder if HA can wiggle out of it with their description. It is original in the sense that it isn’t a copy of an actual pennant from that time period. It’s a new design. Of course it’s an original circa 1998 pennant, in fact I bought this and others in person from the Mitchell & Ness Philly store that year in their half price Super Bowl Weekend sale. …

Enoch102 · #19 08-16-2023, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

Changing gears a bit...

If the "winning" bidder of this Indians pennant sees this post, start applying for your refund with Heritage ASAP. You just overpaid by $610 for a Mitchell & Ness Repro.

Hope whoever "won it" sees this and gets proper resolution!

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c...uction-120115#

Looks like it’s up for auction on ebay. Or someone else is trying to make some money.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38597255913...Bk9SR47No8-_Yg

Duluth Eskimo · #20 08-17-2023, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MK

As more circumstantial evidence, I give you one of these where someone painted the year 1938 at the end. Granted it could have been done years later, but more than likely it was done shortly after purchase. And yes it has the Shear label with the 146 Park Row address.

That is strange. I will also add that none of my 40�s versions of similar Yankees American League Champions have any labels on the rear like yours has, but do have similar field and design elements. Maybe they kept the Yankees with the �older� logo and went for a newer version with the Cubs? Who knows.

The strange thing is I have Yankees pennants that I believe to be from 1941 to 1943 that are different designs as well.

Vintagedeputy · #21 08-18-2023, 12:04 AM

Picked up a couple of vintage pennants. Not in perfect condition but I like the graphics.

perezfan · #22 07-22-2023, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetahat

New acquisition from 1937. Has �Charles Shear� tag on back. Does anyone have the �sister� Yankees version? I think there are a couple.

There are actually three 1937 Yankees 3/4 versions with the Charles Shear Tag...

One has a bunch of scattered names (like the Giants)
One has fewer names (just the "star" players)
One has the same flag graphic, but only says "Winners" to the right of that.

I used to have all three, but decided to sell a couple to fund other stuff. Great pickup, especially in that condition.

thetahat · #23 07-22-2023, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

There are actually three 1937 Yankees 3/4 versions with the Charles Shear Tag...

One has a bunch of scattered names (like the Giants)
One has fewer names (just the "star" players)
One has the same flag graphic, but only says "Winners" to the right of that.

I used to have all three, but decided to sell a couple to fund other stuff. Great pickup, especially in that condition.

Very interesting � and now I recall seeing the �Winners� version. Good stuff Mark!

Fballguy · #24 07-22-2023, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetahat

New acquisition from 1937. Has �Charles Shear� tag on back. Does anyone have the �sister� Yankees version? I think there are a couple.

Here's one...

ooo-ribay · #25 07-23-2023, 09:53 AM

If I�m not mistaken, Greg�s 1937 pennant looks a lot better in his possession than it did on ebay. Great pickup!

Latest installment of Rowan and Martin�s Laugh-In, er TSOG, was great too!

WillowGrove · #26 07-23-2023, 10:34 AM

Just taking some time on this Sunday morning to finally post my three-pennant collection in this great thread. (yeah I was lucky enough to win the Yankees one in the recent REA).

Someday when I have more free time I want to drill down and see if I can find some answers like - when they were sold at the ballpark, who made some of the gorgeous oversized pennants, how many were typically even made, etc etc. If answers exist somewhere already and I've missed it, please point me towards them.

Thanks guys.

ETA: Sorry for the huge photo.

ooo-ribay · #27 07-23-2023, 11:31 AM

Beautiful stuff, Peter! You can join the rest of us, chasing those mysteries.

P.S. you will find a lot of answers at Domer’s blog, pennantfever.weebly.com

perezfan · #28 07-23-2023, 01:04 PM

Looks breath-taking Peter! Congrats on nailing that one down... not many (if any) other oversized Yankees Pennants are known to have survived.

Awesome graphics and great framing job... just stellar. But unfortunately, the mysteries of these things still outweigh what we think we know about them!

WillowGrove · #29 07-24-2023, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Beautiful stuff, Peter! You can join the rest of us, chasing those mysteries.

P.S. you will find a lot of answers at Domer�s blog, pennantfever.weebly.com

Hey thanks for the comments guys! Really appreciate it.

And Rob, I look forward to reviewing that blog. At first I saw info about their specific company and the newer pennants but I see there is good stuff to read about older pennants. Good reading for the plane to Chicago! Thanks again!

thetahat · #30 07-23-2023, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowGrove

Just taking some time on this Sunday morning to finally post my three-pennant collection in this great thread. (yeah I was lucky enough to win the Yankees one in the recent REA).

Someday when I have more free time I want to drill down and see if I can find some answers like - when they were sold at the ballpark, who made some of the gorgeous oversized pennants, how many were typically even made, etc etc. If answers exist somewhere already and I've missed it, please point me towards them.

Thanks guys.

ETA: Sorry for the huge photo.

Great pennants! I second Mark�s comment about oversized Yankees. That is the only one I�ve ever seen in my life. And it�s in great condition. Congrats!

Hankphenom · #31 07-23-2023, 05:33 PM

Man, oh man, you guys are just killing it with these fab pennants! Your posts are just thrilling to see for a pennant guy like myself.

Scott Garner · #32 07-24-2023, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowGrove

Just taking some time on this Sunday morning to finally post my three-pennant collection in this great thread. (yeah I was lucky enough to win the Yankees one in the recent REA).

Someday when I have more free time I want to drill down and see if I can find some answers like - when they were sold at the ballpark, who made some of the gorgeous oversized pennants, how many were typically even made, etc etc. If answers exist somewhere already and I've missed it, please point me towards them.

Thanks guys.

ETA: Sorry for the huge photo.

Pete,
Awesome pennants!! Conrats on that trio of beauties!

661fish · #33 07-24-2023, 10:07 AM

Glad that Mark has his TSOG channel now. I am lobbying Greg and anyone else with a vast collection of pennants to do a channel as well. I have been trying to convince Greg and would encourage others to motivate him as well.

thetahat · #34 07-23-2023, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

If I�m not mistaken, Greg�s 1937 pennant looks a lot better in his possession than it did on ebay. Great pickup!

Latest installment of Rowan and Martin�s Laugh-In, er TSOG, was great too!

Thank you. Usually not a fan of the generic baseball scene pennants - I only have a few - but this one was pretty cool with the names.

UKCardGuy · #35 08-14-2024, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetahat

New acquisition from 1937. Has �Charles Shear� tag on back. Does anyone have the �sister� Yankees version? I think there are a couple.

I know this post is over a year old....but I picked up this 1936 pennant with the Charles Shear tag on the back. I think I'm equally as excited by the tag as I am the pennant.

Duluth Eskimo · #36 08-15-2024, 02:59 PM

Nice pennant.

ser1979 · #37 08-16-2024, 06:27 AM

Excited to add this to my collection of Tiger pennants. It's not in the best shape and needs a little cleaning but overall I'm happy to have it, especially since I've never seen one come up for sale before.

ooo-ribay · #38 08-16-2024, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ser1979

Excited to add this to my collection of Tiger pennants. It's not in the best shape and needs a little cleaning but overall I'm happy to have it, especially since I've never seen one come up for sale before.

If you�re a team collector (and I think you are), you�ve gotta jump on stuff you�ve never seen, even if the condition is less than ideal. Great find!

perezfan · #39 08-16-2024, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ser1979

Excited to add this to my collection of Tiger pennants. It's not in the best shape and needs a little cleaning but overall I'm happy to have it, especially since I've never seen one come up for sale before.

Looks like they "borrowed" the Cincinnati Bengals first year Tiger mascot for this one. They took the football out of his paws and lost the flying helmet. Makes sense in terms of the timing as well (1968).

Interesting, as the Tigers seemingly had endless Tiger designs to draw from (without having to steal from the lowly Bengals!) First time I've seen this one... great find!

thetahat · #40 08-16-2024, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

Looks like they "borrowed" the Cincinnati Bengals first year Tiger mascot for this one. They took the football out of his paws and lost the flying helmet. Makes sense in terms of the timing as well (1968).

Interesting, as the Tigers seemingly had endless Tiger designs to draw from (without having to steal from the lowly Bengals!) First time I've seen this one... great find!

My favorite Tiger is the Slightly Disapproving Parent Tiger

UKCardGuy · #41 08-17-2024, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ser1979

Excited to add this to my collection of Tiger pennants. It's not in the best shape and needs a little cleaning but overall I'm happy to have it, especially since I've never seen one come up for sale before.

Great pickup that's a pretty rare pennant. I love team photo pennants. Is that photo glued on to the front of the pennant or is it fixed from the back?

Vintagedeputy · #42 08-17-2024, 07:56 PM

I saw this 1955 Dodgers World Series pennant in a live online auction and the sellers kept remarking about how wonderful the condition was on this vintage pennant. I immediately felt like it was a modern fantasy piece. Anyone ever see this before?

thetahat · #43 08-16-2024, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I know this post is over a year old....but I picked up this 1936 pennant with the Charles Shear tag on the back. I think I'm equally as excited by the tag as I am the pennant.

Cool pennant. Not many dated pennants from the 1930s. Which raises a question. Why is it that there are so few identifiable pennants from the 1920s? Seems like there are many more from the teens than the decade that followed. It appears that it didn�t pick back up until the mid 30s.

Mark? Domer?

Domer05 · #44 08-17-2024, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetahat

Cool pennant. Not many dated pennants from the 1930s. Which raises a question. Why is it that there are so few identifiable pennants from the 1920s? Seems like there are many more from the teens than the decade that followed. It appears that it didn�t pick back up until the mid 30s.

Mark? Domer?

Well Greg, that is a fine observation; and I had wondered about that as well....

I think it's a combination of several factors. First, the Great Depression probably didn't help any. Not only were less people attending ballgames in the 1930s, they were buying less consumer goods in general. Money was tight. Advertisers used pennants to help sell all kinds of products. It's no surprise then that the single most common pennant of the late 1930s was the BF3 mini pennant. It could be made so cheaply, advertisers gave them away as promotional items. They were so collectible, apparently everyone forgot about the full size and oversize pennants that had dominated the first two decades of the 20th century.

Second, and this was likely the biggest reason, is the absence of children from ballparks until the 1940s, and onward. In the 1910s and 20s, no respectable family would take their kid to a ballpark. It just wasn't done. Kids had to sneak in or watch the action through a knot hole in the fence. So concessionaires, like Charles Shear and Harry M. Stevens, focused more on hot dogs and beer for the men in attendance.

This slowly began to change in the late 1930s and 40s, when ballparks began making a concerted effort to draw ladies and children inside. Not surprisingly, this is about when we see a huge influx in screen printed, 3/4 size pennants, right? It was the ideal souvenir to sell to a kid: it was cheap and its size was suitable to be waved from a dowel without really blocking anyone's view.

The MLB pennants we know surviving from the 1910s were probably made in really small batches. Nothing like the output of Trench, ADFLAG, WGN, etc. by the 1950s. In those days, pennants were more common on collegiate landscapes--not ballparks.

Vintagedeputy · #45 08-17-2024, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domer05

Well Greg, that is a fine observation; and I had wondered about that as well....

I think it's a combination of several factors. First, the Great Depression probably didn't help any. Not only were less people attending ballgames in the 1930s, they were buying less consumer goods in general. Money was tight. Advertisers used pennants to help sell all kinds of products. It's no surprise then that the single most common pennant of the late 1930s was the BF3 mini pennant. It could be made so cheaply, advertisers gave them away as promotional items. They were so collectible, apparently everyone forgot about the full size and oversize pennants that had dominated the first two decades of the 20th century.

Second, and this was likely the biggest reason, is the absence of children from ballparks until the 1940s, and onward. In the 1910s and 20s, no respectable family would take their kid to a ballpark. It just wasn't done. Kids had to sneak in or watch the action through a knot hole in the fence. So concessionaires, like Charles Shear and Harry M. Stevens, focused more on hot dogs and beer for the men in attendance.

This slowly began to change in the late 1930s and 40s, when ballparks began making a concerted effort to draw ladies and children inside. Not surprisingly, this is about when we see a huge influx in screen printed, 3/4 size pennants, right? It was the ideal souvenir to sell to a kid: it was cheap and its size was suitable to be waved from a dowel without really blocking anyone's view.

The MLB pennants we know surviving from the 1910s were probably made in really small batches. Nothing like the output of Trench, ADFLAG, WGN, etc. by the 1950s. In those days, pennants were more common on collegiate landscapes--not ballparks.

Fantastic observation. Makes sense for sure.

thetahat · #46 08-17-2024, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domer05

Well Greg, that is a fine observation; and I had wondered about that as well....

I think it's a combination of several factors. First, the Great Depression probably didn't help any. Not only were less people attending ballgames in the 1930s, they were buying less consumer goods in general. Money was tight. Advertisers used pennants to help sell all kinds of products. It's no surprise then that the single most common pennant of the late 1930s was the BF3 mini pennant. It could be made so cheaply, advertisers gave them away as promotional items. They were so collectible, apparently everyone forgot about the full size and oversize pennants that had dominated the first two decades of the 20th century.

Second, and this was likely the biggest reason, is the absence of children from ballparks until the 1940s, and onward. In the 1910s and 20s, no respectable family would take their kid to a ballpark. It just wasn't done. Kids had to sneak in or watch the action through a knot hole in the fence. So concessionaires, like Charles Shear and Harry M. Stevens, focused more on hot dogs and beer for the men in attendance.

This slowly began to change in the late 1930s and 40s, when ballparks began making a concerted effort to draw ladies and children inside. Not surprisingly, this is about when we see a huge influx in screen printed, 3/4 size pennants, right? It was the ideal souvenir to sell to a kid: it was cheap and its size was suitable to be waved from a dowel without really blocking anyone's view.

The MLB pennants we know surviving from the 1910s were probably made in really small batches. Nothing like the output of Trench, ADFLAG, WGN, etc. by the 1950s. In those days, pennants were more common on collegiate landscapes--not ballparks.

Great stuff Kyle! And yes it makes sense.

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