Best team with no HOFers or HOF caliber players?

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by packs

No, I don't see any comparison. Munson was not the player Posey was, for several reasons:

Posey was a 300 hitter for his career. Munson was not. This is an important stat for catchers as they are rarely 300 hitters.

Posey won a batting title. Another rarity for catchers.

Posey has a career OPS+ of 129 compared to Munson's 116.

Munson's prime wasn't all that special either. The year he won MVP his OPS+ was 126, below Posey's career average. Posey's OPS+ during his MVP season was 171 and led the league.

Again, Posey was doing special things and Munson was not.

So you aren't even going to acknowledge that Posey played a season as a half as a first baseman?

[packs]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

So you aren't even going to acknowledge that Posey played a season as a half as a first baseman?

How does it factor into anything? I'm not going to mention Munson's untimely death either.

Looks like Munson appeared as a DH 77 times and had another 50 plus appearances in the outfield himself. Not sure it matters, does it?

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by packs

How does it factor into anything? I'm not going to mention Munson's untimely death either.

Is this a serious question? Frist base is arguably the easiest fielding position.
So people that play First Base are generally players that hit well and field poorly. If you don't hit extremely well, then you probably can't make an MLB roster as a first baseman.

An above average hitting catcher is way more valuable to a team than 1st baseman that only hits slightly better. This is the exact reason why Munson's WAR and WAR7 are higher than Posey's. That and Munson was arguably a better fielder. Fielding matters as a catcher. Munson lead the League in throwing out runners twice. Posey never did.

[packs]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Is this a serious question? Frist base is arguably the easiest fielding position.
So people that play First Base are generally players that hit well and field poorly. If you don't hit extremely well, then you probably can't make an MLB roster as a first baseman.

An above average catcher is way more valuable to a team than 1st baseman that only hits slightly better. This is the exact reason why Munson's WAR and WAR7 are higher than Posey's. That and Munson was arguably a better fielder. Fielding matters as a catcher. Munson lead the League in throwing out runners twice. Posey never did.

What's wrong with resting players? On the days Posey played first, isn't it reasonable for a team to still want him in the line up and be interested in resting his knees? He wasn't in the universal DH era.

I guess you didn't see my edit above that included Munson appearing as a DH 77 times and an outfielder over 50 times himself.

[Peter_Spaeth]

As the OP I don't accept the Giants answer LOL. Any other candidates?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As the OP I don't accept the Giants answer LOL. Any other candidates?

The 2002 Angels are the champion most likely to never have a HOFer.

[Carter08]

Observation from casual fan - I assumed Posey was first ballot and had sick numbers. That was the feeling I got from watching the Giants in those every other year championships. He seemed to be the guy keeping it together and getting big hits (from the catcher position) all the darn time. When I just looked at his numbers was surprised to see that a legit argument could be made to keep him out. I’d certainly vote him in but not as slam dunk as I would have thought.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by rats60

The 2002 Angels are the champion most likely to never have a HOFer.

AGREED! Though David Eckstein is one of my all-time favorites.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

The 2002 Angels are the champion most likely to never have a HOFer.

Kirk Gibson Dodgers?

[rats60]

The only MLB catcher in the HOF with a higher OPS+ than Posey is Mike Piazza. Mickey Cochrane is also at 129. Posey is going in easy, probably a 1st ballot HOFer.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by rats60

The only MLB catcher in the HOF with a higher OPS+ than Posey is Mike Piazza. Mickey Cochrane is also at 129. Posey is going in easy, probably a 1st ballot HOFer.

Well, if every catcher decided to hang up their cleats at age 34, there might be some others with a higher OPS+ than Posey. Berra comes to mind.

Posey didn't even reach 5,000 at bats in his career. More than 50 other catchers did.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by packs

What's wrong with resting players? On the days Posey played first, isn't it reasonable for a team to still want him in the line up and be interested in resting his knees?

I guess you didn't see my edit above that included Munson appearing as a DH 77 times and an outfielder over 50 times himself.

Posey had 838 plate appearances at 1B, 133 as DH and 66 as PH

Munson had 19 plate appearances at 1B, 336 as DH and 64 as PH. Munson also had played appearances at RF (92), LF (14), and 3B (3). In other words, Munson was more versatile than Posey.

I am not saying Posey doesn't belong in the HOF. I am saying that it might be a bitter pill to swallow if Posey made it in before Munson.

[packs]

Well prepare yourself because he's almost certainly a first ballot HOFer and Munson is unlikely to see another vote.

[Peter_Spaeth]

One interesting Posey tidbit, if my memory of the game is right, in Bumgarner's astonishing long relief stint to win the WS, he did not shake off Posey's signs even once.