National: Any Seller's perspectives?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Donscards

One of my favorite sales was selling a $5400 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth to a 14 year old youngster--He was so professional in the whole process--I couldnt believe he was 14 counted out the $100's like a pro--everyone at the booth was amazed--

Where does a 14-year old get $5400 from?

[Seven]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Where does a 14-year old get $5400 from?

Rich Parents, most likely!

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Seven

Rich Parents, most likely!

I guess so, what with all those child labor laws still being in place.

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by Seven

Rich Parents, most likely!

Lime green Izod with the collar turned-up.

No chance his parents are not wealthy. They can't meet the rent, but he's in his room with his Babe Ruth card.

[Casey2296]

I would never discount new money moving into pre-war, which is imho true collecting, realize old school collectors might have paid $500 for a Green Cobb, and a bonafide new collector would have to pay 15k for the same experience, would you be willing to do the same to build your collection?

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I would never discount new money moving into pre-war, which is imho true collecting, realize old school collectors might have paid $500 for a Green Cobb, and a bonafide new collector would have to pay 15k for the same experience, would you be willing to do the same to build your collection?

I think if you are paying $15k for a card it is more of an investment than a collection

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

I think if you are paying $15k for a card it is more of an investment than a collection

Define investment, I'm a collector of pre-war and trying to build a respectable collection, 15k is the buy in for many of the big five e-cards. Adding a 14CJ Cobb is going to cost 3 times that, it takes serious commitment to be a pre-war collector nowadays, more than in the past.

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Define investment, I'm a collector of pre-war and trying to build a respectable collection, 15k is the buy in for many of the big five e-cards. Adding a 14CJ Cobb is going to cost 3 times that, it takes serious commitment to be a pre-war collector nowadays, more than in the past.

What I mean is that many people who buy a a card at $15k or so, are just doing to sell it at a profit in a few years. Others, collectors like myself, while not investing, use the fact that the card will appreciate in value to justify the purchase, I may do the same in 3-4 years to finish a few sets I am working on. :-)

I think there are very few people, who buy a $15k card with no plans to sell at a profit, meaning they value the card at that price. I'd love a CJ 14 Cobb, and could pull money out of my Fidelity account to buy it, with out hurting myself too much financially, but I just can't see doing it. Perhaps the world has passed me by

[Huck]

Interesting youtube discussion. The junk slab era. The trio mentions not only dividing the National into areas (ex. vintage vs modern) but by sport as well. Breaker boxes only for breakers. Those boxes will be loaded to fuel the hype. Sports card investing. Interesting times. I question whether this is going to end well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcaX77dPO3I

[timzcardz]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Where does a 14-year old get $5400 from?

I'd guess working for about an hour selling Italian ices at a convention center without Air Conditioning!

[Bkrum]

I was a first time vintage dealer at the show and lucked into a relatively small table with four cases. I sold nearly all of my 50s slabs of mays, aaron, clemente, mantle. There is so much of this stuff in the room it comes down selling for $25 less than the other guys which I was willing to do. Was a little disappointed in my T206 sales although I did sell a Cobb and plenty of others. In hindsight I probably should have dedicated two cases to them instead of one. Sold a good chunk of my 52 Red Mans and 56 yellow basepaths. Did very well on raw 53 Topps high number and oddly 1951 Topps red and blue backs. Several Cleveland fans wiped out my oddball Indians stuff. It was interesting seeing the deals that walked up to the table. I bought some nice things for my PC and missed on some things I could/should have bought. I also bought some stuff I really didn’t want because the price was good. Learned a lot and would be better prepared next time. Overall it was a memorable experience and tons of fun.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Where does a 14-year old get $5400 from?

That was the part of Don's post that jumped off the screen for me as well. I don't recall making too many $5,000+ purchases at age 14 (even adjusted for inflation). But good for the kid putting the money into a classic Ruth card instead of a modern flavor of the week. If he keeps the card, I think he will be very happy with that decision a few decades from now.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

That was the part of Don's post that jumped off the screen for me as well. I don't recall making too many $5,000+ purchases at age 14 (even adjusted for inflation). But good for the kid putting the money into a classic Ruth card instead of a modern flavor of the week. If he keeps the card, I think he will be very happy with that decision a few decades from now.

Maybe dad put him up to it (with dad's money) assuming a kid would do better with a decent guy seller.

[sb1]

Lots of young collectors have their bullet proof box full of Benjamins and/or Luka cards...and other high end flashy stuff, but many also buy pre-war.

[Steve_NY]

Just got back to storage this morning, but I was busy the entire show with lots of T and E card sales and lots of Goudey and similar sales.

The most exciting thing that I saw at this National is that the kids have returned to collecting and many collectors have returned to their incomplete sets.

It's my 39th show and it will finish at somewhere around my best to fifth best National, depending on my followups in the next week or two. I consider all sales emanating from the National as sales for that National but I cut off after 2 weeks.

Looking forward to next year in Cleveland.

Steve_NY

[pclpads]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

That was the part of Don's post that jumped off the screen for me as well. I don't recall making too many $5,000+ purchases at age 14 (even adjusted for inflation). But good for the kid putting the money into a classic Ruth card instead of a modern flavor of the week.

If he keeps the card, I think he will be very happy with that decision a few decades from now.

Not likely. Five will get you ten that the kid and daddy put it on feebay or in a big AH in the next 30 days. My guess is they are both flippers and not buy it and holders.

[Jewish-collector]

What I think is happening is that the kid is a real collector (but not vintage and not at that level), so he talked the father into buying the Ruth card and then selling it a month or so later.
I recall suggesting a similar idea many years ago for my father to buy the T206 Wagner or the 1952 Mantle but he said no.

[sb1]

I would be willing to bet that the kid leveraged himself into the deal by pulling and or savvy buying/trading of modern cards and got to the point he had a bank roll from doing so..They are way more business/card savvy than we give them credit for.

[notfast]

Originally Posted by sb1

I would be willing to bet that the kid leveraged himself into the deal by pulling and or savvy buying/trading of modern cards and got to the point he had a bank roll from doing so..They are way more business/card savvy than we give them credit for.

This is probably exactly what happened.

The hotel trades nights are an absolute mad house of people under 20 and dotted with people under 30.

This is the future of the hobby so we need these kids to enjoy the hobby, even if they’re just in it to make money.

[mrreality68]

Very interesting takeaways

Especially about the youths

[rand1com]

This was my 14th National as a dealer and it was middle of the road for me.

I mostly deal in autographs and memorabilia and this show for the most part did not present nearly as many customers as it historically does for these items or either they just missed my table. I had a decent location but few vintage/tobacco cards so the table was mostly just walked past.

The last two Nationals I had purchased large collections of 1950's/60's baseball just before the National and did very well.

All of that said, I was still only about a grand short of my expected dollar volume and my number of sales although not extremely high in number averaged almost $500 per sale with the vast majority being 1 item sales.

I did notice some younger collectors looking for vintage cards, autographs, and tickets. One 18 or so year old young man toyed with buying a 1947 World Series Game 1 Robinson Debut ticket in a PSA 4 holder for $3000. He wanted to trade a 1957 WS ticket autographed by Aaron + cash for it but wanted too much trade value for the deal to work for me. Another 14 year old was working on finding autographed Y.A. Tittle items to make a framed display. Other youngsters were excited to look at items that dated to 80-100 years ago.

But I agree with others that the vast majority of teen collectors are looking at the hobby as a money making venture only.

[timber63401]

We like to kind of look down on and say that a lot of the kids are just looking at all this as a money making venture but there are several posters and long time posters on this board that look at pre-war exactly the same way. Id say if 1% of the current under 18 crowd in this hobby turn to vintage and pre-war then its a win.

[CJinPA]

Originally Posted by timber63401

We like to kind of look down on and say that a lot of the kids are just looking at all this as a money making venture but there are several posters and long time posters on this board that look at pre-war exactly the same way. Id say if 1% of the current under 18 crowd in this hobby turn to vintage and pre-war then its a win.

+100 to this! The 18 and under crowd these days is far more advanced than my generation of collectors in the 80's and '90's.... yes, I'm a product of the junk wax era but had an uncle who only bought 50'-70's era so had me always thinking about the relative rarity of the mid-century cards.

I'd suggest that more than 1% eventually take the leap - but that's just a feeling...

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by rand1com

This was my 14th National as a dealer and it was middle of the road for me.

I mostly deal in autographs and memorabilia and this show for the most part did not present nearly as many customers as it historically does for these items or either they just missed my table. I had a decent location but few vintage/tobacco cards so the table was mostly just walked past.

The last two Nationals I had purchased large collections of 1950's/60's baseball just before the National and did very well.

All of that said, I was still only about a grand short of my expected dollar volume and my number of sales although not extremely high in number averaged almost $500 per sale with the vast majority being 1 item sales.

I did notice some younger collectors looking for vintage cards, autographs, and tickets. One 18 or so year old young man toyed with buying a 1947 World Series Game 1 Robinson Debut ticket in a PSA 4 holder for $3000. He wanted to trade a 1957 WS ticket autographed by Aaron + cash for it but wanted too much trade value for the deal to work for me. Another 14 year old was working on finding autographed Y.A. Tittle items to make a framed display. Other youngsters were excited to look at items that dated to 80-100 years ago.

But I agree with others that the vast majority of teen collectors are looking at the hobby as a money making venture only.

What's wrong with that? Doesn't the hobby need future dealers as well as future collectors?

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Just remember it wasn't so long ago that most of us worried about the future of the hobby. It seems to me that it will be just fine. Ebb and flow as always. The future seems brighter to me now. Several of those kids will find their way to vintage and all will be well.

I started as a kid by collecting contemporary cards. Didn't we all? In spite of the fact that resident Net54 sage Ted Z. started out by opening packs containing Ruths and Wagners, I'm still guessing he may have been hoping for a Larry Jansen or Snuffy Stirnweiss!

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by jayshum

What's wrong with that? Doesn't the hobby need future dealers as well as future collectors?

Nothing wrong with it. Just stating what I believe to be the case.

[Chicosbailbonds]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Where does a 14-year old get $5400 from?

Probably flipped some parallels he won in a break. That’s how they do it now.

[Exhibitman]

The more things change the more they stay the same. I used to flip cards for a profit all the time. How I financed my collecting as a kid. I bought 'em at an antique store I'd found that sold cards 12 for a buck, and sell them for a quarter or two at school, flip the profits back into it.

[CA Esq]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Where does a 14-year old get $5400 from?

$2000/hr pretending to be a humanoid robot on Tik Tok.

[CJinPA]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Where does a 14-year old get $5400 from?

Surely a rarity but my son used his saving from working at a local McDonald's (14's can work in PA) and cut lawns for 12 families in our neighborhood. He was into technology, not so much Dad's passion for vintage cards.... he bought 2 Bitcoin in the summer of 2017. It can be done, with focus.

I'd love to know that kids story - does he have one foot in modern where he could flip some cards to fund a purchase for an all-time great? Did Mom and Dad front him the money, or did he save over time? Definitely unique - I love those stories.

[marcmandel]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Where does a 14-year old get $5400 from?

What Don's not saying is the 14 year old also said he was "set up" down the hall as a dealer and he loved vintage in his case. This 14 year old was very smart and very tuned into the good stuff, for sure.

[Exhibitman]

The promoters could pretend it isn't 1994 and set up an app to alert autograph customers where and when to go to the area.