Super high end Mantle cards

Steve D · #1 08-27-2023, 07:11 AM

Regarding the value difference between Mantle and Mays:

It was pointed out in a previous post, that Mantle seemed to have good luck in the art department with his cards...most of his cards portray him smiling, or just looking good; hell, he was a handsome dude.

Aaron too; most, if not all of his cards show him in a good mood, looking happy to be there.

Mays on the other hand, seems to be unhappy or brooding on most of his cards.

What would the difference be if Mays looked as good as Mantle on his cards?

Steve

brunswickreeves · #2 08-27-2023, 08:51 AM

By comparison for some key cards Mick & Mays shared in the 50s:
51B-Mick & Mays both batting stoic
52T-Both portrait stoic
52B-Both stoic
52B-Both stoic
53T-Both stoic
54B-Mick smiling Mays stoic
55B-Mick stoic Mays smiling
56T-Both portrait smiling
57T-Both batting stoic
58T-Both smiling
59T-Neither smiling

I surmise Mick�s higher card value has most to do with the sheer volume/demand of collectors vying for his cards, thus driving up prices. It would be interesting to see how many Mick cards are sold in a year vs. Mays and if there�s any correlation with higher pricing.

gunboat82 · #3 08-27-2023, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve D

Regarding the value difference between Mantle and Mays:

It was pointed out in a previous post, that Mantle seemed to have good luck in the art department with his cards...most of his cards portray him smiling, or just looking good; hell, he was a handsome dude.

Aaron too; most, if not all of his cards show him in a good mood, looking happy to be there.

Mays on the other hand, seems to be unhappy or brooding on most of his cards.

What would the difference be if Mays looked as good as Mantle on his cards?

Steve

The subjective "mood" that a card brings is certainly a factor. I love the look of the 1953 Topps cards. The first three I chased were, in order, Paige, Robinson, and Mantle. When I tracked down the Mays, I didn't really feel any connection to it, even though the I like the pose. Mays' scowl reminds me of Jay-Z's serious face on the Hard Knock Life album cover. If he had been flashing the 1954-56 smile during those fake fielding drills, it would've been one of my favorite cards.

His 1952 Topps is an O.K. compromise between chaseability and aesthetics. He looks focused... maybe mildly constipated. But not pissed off at the world, the way he looks in the 1953 Topps set.

Republicaninmass · #4 08-27-2023, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunboat82

The subjective "mood" that a card brings is certainly a factor. I love the look of the 1953 Topps cards. The first three I chased were, in order, Paige, Robinson, and Mantle. When I tracked down the Mays, I didn't really feel any connection to it, even though the I like the pose. Mays' scowl reminds me of Jay-Z's serious face on the Hard Knock Life album cover. If he had been flashing the 1954-56 smile during those fake fielding drills, it would've been one of my favorite cards.

His 1952 Topps is an O.K. compromise between chaseability and aesthetics. He looks focused... maybe mildly constipated. But not pissed off at the world, the way he looks in the 1953 Topps set.

If you went through some cards like this on YouTube, I'd watch it.

Agree on the 53 willie, but I do think it is very undervalued

1958 brooks Robinson? Lol

puckpaul · #5 08-30-2023, 08:38 AM

https://youtu.be/fVpKthuQCSc?si=NamBiTce17BDBN1z

Here, now you can show your great grandkids and they can say they saw Mantle play.

How many on this board have seen Ohtani play? Twelve Angels fans?

packs · #6 08-30-2023, 08:45 AM

This idea that you had to see someone play to appreciate them is bizarre especially when you consider that if you lived in, say, Philadelphia and grew up a Phillies fan in the 1950s you would have never seen Mantle play either. It's not like you could have watched him on TV. And the Phillies didn't make a World Series appearance his entire career.

Snapolit1 · #7 08-30-2023, 09:00 AM

It's not that you needed to see him play . . . . it's just that Mantle's cards seems to have a widely disproportionate level of love among collectors than what is reflected in his broader impact. They are people like Ruth, Jordan, Gretzky who are iconic personalities. Not coincidentally, they are the gold standard in their respective sports. Then, on the other end of the spectrum are guys like Sherry Magee, who are hobby icons, and have zero cultural or even baseball resonance to anyone outside the hobby. (Or this board!) Then you have the rest of players between those goalposts.

Mays will pass at some point relatively soon and the accolates will pour in that he was one of the great 3 or 4 baseball players of all time. And people will argue that his cards aren't on the same level as Mantle because he wasn't smiling. Or was rude at a card show? Alrighty. . . . Go for it.

I've always figured that Mantle is huge because in the hobby because the snapshot of who has half a million or a million to spend on a piece of card board are men of a certain age who either saw him play or identified with him. If he was your idol and you are a wealthy man I get it. If you are 30 years old collecting Mantle I think morely likely than not you are investing. And nothing wrong with that either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

This idea that you had to see someone play to appreciate them is bizarre especially when you consider that if you lived in, say, Philadelphia and grew up a Phillies fan in the 1950s you would have never seen Mantle play either. It's not like you could have watched him on TV. And the Phillies didn't make a World Series appearance his entire career.

packs · #8 08-30-2023, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

It's not that you needed to see him play . . . . it's just that Mantle's cards seems to have a widely disproportionate level of love among collectors than what is reflected in his broader impact. They are people like Ruth, Jordan, Gretzky who are iconic personalities. Not coincidentally, they are the gold standard in their respective sports. Then, on the other end of the spectrum are guys like Sherry Magee, who are hobby icons, and have zero cultural or even baseball resonance to anyone outside the hobby. (Or this board!) Then you have the rest of players between those goalposts.

Mays will pass at some point relatively soon and the accolates will pour in that he was one of the great 3 or 4 baseball players of all time. And people will argue that his cards aren't on the same level as Mantle because he wasn't smiling. Or was rude at a card show? Alrighty. . . . Go for it.

I've always figured that Mantle is huge because in the hobby because the snapshot of who has half a million or a million to spend on a piece of card board are men of a certain age who either saw him play or identified with him. If he was your idol and you are a wealthy man I get it. If you are 30 years old collecting Mantle I think morely likely than not you are investing. And nothing wrong with that either.

Look at the list you rattled off for greats of their sports: Ruth, Jordan and Gretzky. Ruth won 7 titles. Jordan won 6 titles. Gretzky won 4 Stanley Cups.

Willie Mays won a single World Series.

Mantle won 7 of them. I think that's probably why Mantle occupies his space. He is forever seen as a champion. Mays, though great in his own right, won't be seen that way.

Snapolit1 · #9 08-30-2023, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckpaul

https://youtu.be/fVpKthuQCSc?si=NamBiTce17BDBN1z

Here, now you can show your great grandkids and they can say they saw Mantle play.

How many on this board have seen Ohtani play? Twelve Angels fans?

Just saw him in NY. Half the crowd seemed to be wearing red.

Fuddjcal · #10 08-31-2023, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckpaul

https://youtu.be/fVpKthuQCSc?si=NamBiTce17BDBN1z

Here, now you can show your great grandkids and they can say they saw Mantle play.

How many on this board have seen Ohtani play? Twelve Angels fans?

I've seen Shoestring Ohtami play a few times. Take my grandkids every year.

campyfan39 · #11 08-31-2023, 08:00 PM

I was born in 1973 and when I got into the hobby (first packs were 78 topps) and as I was growing up, the 52 Mantle was THE card. It was seen as the holy grail to an entire additional generation. I didn't know anything about pre war cards until I saw an article on the Honus but by then I was well into my 30's. So the post war for me is still my main interest and he is the biggest name of that era; though my favorite player is Campanella and I am a Dodgers fan

mordecaibrown1 · #12 09-01-2023, 06:35 AM

Stahl Meyer Mantle pretty scarce in this condition pop 22 in anything past a 1.0

brian1961 · #13 09-02-2023, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mordecaibrown1

Stahl Meyer Mantle pretty scarce in this condition pop 22 in anything past a 1.0

Hi, Sam Dodero. I really admire your beautiful 1953 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle. You are quite right; any grade of this card higher than a 1.0 is pretty scarce, and yours looks low high-grade. That says a lot for the typical appearance of this issue, doesn't it, Sam? Considering this baby is an early Mantle card, pop 22 for anything past 1.0 is startling, when you really think about it.

Sam, I've owned mine for a bit over 35 years, and I felt EXTREMELY FORTUNATE to win it then. I'm very happy to still own it. For years, it's been an overlooked, underappreciated card. Once PSA included it in their TOP 250 Sportscards of All Time, some collectors began to take more notice.

Most of the appreciation for Mantle centers on his 1952 Topps, and that is understandable. Unfortunately, hobby writers found it too easy to just write about the easy, meaning the '52 Topps. Considering what Gem Mint and Mint examples have sold for in the last 2 years, the '52 Topps Mick should continue to be written about. Nevertheless, hobby writers should write about the beautiful, tougher to find Mantles.

Back to the 1953 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle, I'll close with this. Remember Mr. Mint Alan Rosen? He's the dealer that engineered THE FIND of 1952 Topps high numbers, from whence came most all the highest graded '52 Topps Mantles. Well, I interviewed Rosen for my book on immediate post-war regional / food issues, and I asked him to compare a '52 Topps Mantle to a '53 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mantle. Alan had nothing to gain or lose in the matter; it was just a straight question. I have it on tape. His answer will blow you away, as it did me. Mr. Mint said:

"But the Mantle, to me the '52 Topps Mantle is sh** compared to a '53 Stahl-Meyer. ... " (Never Cheaper By the Dozen, page 207)

Well Sam, take care and continue to enjoy your Stahl-Meyer Mantle. I used to own a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle, and loved it, and I miss it.

--- Brian Powell

LincolnVT · #14 09-02-2023, 08:30 PM

Personally, I prefer Jackie over Mantle for postwar. I see Robinson overcoming Mantle in the short term and over time.

Seven · #15 09-03-2023, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian1961

Hi, Sam Dodero. I really admire your beautiful 1953 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle. You are quite right; any grade of this card higher than a 1.0 is pretty scarce, and yours looks low high-grade. That says a lot for the typical appearance of this issue, doesn't it, Sam? Considering this baby is an early Mantle card, pop 22 for anything past 1.0 is startling, when you really think about it.

Sam, I've owned mine for a bit over 35 years, and I felt EXTREMELY FORTUNATE to win it then. I'm very happy to still own it. For years, it's been an overlooked, underappreciated card. Once PSA included it in their TOP 250 Sportscards of All Time, some collectors began to take more notice.

Most of the appreciation for Mantle centers on his 1952 Topps, and that is understandable. Unfortunately, hobby writers found it too easy to just write about the easy, meaning the '52 Topps. Considering what Gem Mint and Mint examples have sold for in the last 2 years, the '52 Topps Mick should continue to be written about. Nevertheless, hobby writers should write about the beautiful, tougher to find Mantles.

Back to the 1953 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle, I'll close with this. Remember Mr. Mint Alan Rosen? He's the dealer that engineered THE FIND of 1952 Topps high numbers, from whence came most all the highest graded '52 Topps Mantles. Well, I interviewed Rosen for my book on immediate post-war regional / food issues, and I asked him to compare a '52 Topps Mantle to a '53 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mantle. Alan had nothing to gain or lose in the matter; it was just a straight question. I have it on tape. His answer will blow you away, as it did me. Mr. Mint said:

"But the Mantle, to me the '52 Topps Mantle is shit compared to a '53 Stahl-Meyer. ... " (Never Cheaper By the Dozen, page 207)

Well Sam, take care and continue to enjoy your Stahl-Meyer Mantle. I used to own a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle, and loved it, and I miss it.

--- Brian Powell

The Stahl-Meyer issue is one of Mantle's nicest cards, in my opinion. You cannot go wrong with it. The photo, they used, was used on a couple of Mantle's alternative issues such as Briggs Meats, and his Dan-Dee issue. On the subject of alternative issues, another one of Mantle's best looking card, in my opinion, is his 1954 Red Heart.

I think the staying power that Mantle has, trumps pretty much every post-war player. Again, people have to realize he represents 1950's Americana. Those post war years, where the American dream was thriving. I think the thing that helps his mystique is the fact that he accomplished so much, but people still view him as one of the biggest "What If's?" due to his various injuries, and the fact that he put his body through hell, constantly boozing.

On the subject of other players overtaking him, I just don't see it. Yes Jackie's cultural significance in breaking the barrier was huge, I do think he will see an eventual bump, once Rachael passes away, as Jackie's always relevant name will receive even more publicity. But I still don't see him passing The Mick. Aaron and Mays both had better overall careers than Mickey, and even with the recent bumps Willie has gotten, neither are over taking him.

MantleMarisFordBerra · #16 08-27-2023, 09:45 AM

These past couple posts about the overall mood pf Mantle vs. Mays brings another element up that has not been discussed yet: their personalities at card shows. When the hobby really exploded in the 80's, Mantle seemed friendly & good natured at autograph signings and Mays...well, he had a different reputation. I'm sure others will chime in with their experiences. It's not hard to imagine someone who looked up to Mays and then having a poor experience meeting him would be less likely to want to spend money continuing chasing his cards.

As far as Mantle pricing eventually tapering off, I've been online over 20 years and the concept of Mantle's cards cooling off gets brought up on various message boards & forums on a somewhat regular basis. I'm still waiting.

Snapolit1 · #17 08-27-2023, 10:37 AM

Mantle may have been am amiable guy at card shows, but was also a surly drunk and perfectly obnoxious at times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MantleMarisFordBerra

These past couple posts about the overall mood pf Mantle vs. Mays brings another element up that has not been discussed yet: their personalities at card shows. When the hobby really exploded in the 80's, Mantle seemed friendly & good natured at autograph signings and Mays...well, he had a different reputation. I'm sure others will chime in with their experiences. It's not hard to imagine someone who looked up to Mays and then having a poor experience meeting him would be less likely to want to spend money continuing chasing his cards.

As far as Mantle pricing eventually tapering off, I've been online over 20 years and the concept of Mantle's cards cooling off gets brought up on various message boards & forums on a somewhat regular basis. I'm still waiting.

DocScoot · #18 08-27-2023, 10:43 AM

Read through the previous posts and realized mine added nothing new, nothing to see here :-)

rats60 · #19 08-27-2023, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MantleMarisFordBerra

These past couple posts about the overall mood pf Mantle vs. Mays brings another element up that has not been discussed yet: their personalities at card shows. When the hobby really exploded in the 80's, Mantle seemed friendly & good natured at autograph signings and Mays...well, he had a different reputation. I'm sure others will chime in with their experiences. It's not hard to imagine someone who looked up to Mays and then having a poor experience meeting him would be less likely to want to spend money continuing chasing his cards.

As far as Mantle pricing eventually tapering off, I've been online over 20 years and the concept of Mantle's cards cooling off gets brought up on various message boards & forums on a somewhat regular basis. I'm still waiting.

That wasn't my experience from getting autographs at card shows.

Kingcobb · #20 08-27-2023, 09:46 AM

I was born in the 60�s and remember watching Mantle in his final years 68 and 69 seems like he popped up and struck out a lot. But occasionally he would hit a home run and it would be like nothing else I think it brought back memories of his greatness in the 50�s and early 60�s and my Dad and Uncle would go crazy as well as the fans on TV. Those great memories had me wanting all the Mantle cards when I joined the work force. I think that�s what�s going on with his cards it just brings back great memories.

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