Cards still being outed on Blowout -- PSA 9 Monte Irvin in the recent ML

Peter_Spaeth · #1 09-17-2023, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulus

I’m really not sure what I believe. Just trying to make a little sense of it through the economic lens. Haven’t quite been able to square the circle just yet. And maybe we never will.

Do what suits you, I know what I know, facts are facts. Even if it were hard, and most of it isn't, think how many cards even a single person could alter if that was his sole occupation for, say, three decades. You do the math, then multiply it by all the card doctors out there, and then add in all the ones doing routine stuff. It adds up.

raulus · #2 09-17-2023, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Do what suits you, I know what I know, facts are facts.

Cool cool.

I�m just trying to better understand the facts.

I promise I still despise the concept of card doctors, and I sincerely hope nothing in my collection is doctored.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 09-17-2023, 04:26 PM

I hope so too.

raulus · #4 09-17-2023, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I hope so too.

Sadly, given the fact that much of my collection is high grade postwar, it sounds like the odds are good that some or even most of what I have should be under suspicion, even if it�s not on any lists (yet).

I think that sort of a dawning realization is less than fun to consider. I�m probably still halfway in the denial phase and halfway in the bargaining phase of the grief process.

raulus · #5 09-17-2023, 04:28 PM

My first double post. I guess I’m a member of the club now.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 09-17-2023, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulus

My first double post. I guess I’m a member of the club now.

I don't know what you've bought, or what it looks like, or from whom, so hard to comment. I went through this on a much smaller scale a very long time ago and downgraded most big ticket cards I had, because I didn't want to deal with the cloud of all the card doctoring. It was prevalent even back then. But I wasn't iinto very deep at the time. I hope you find a way to deal with it all, it does suck, no question.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 09-17-2023, 04:35 PM

By the way even now, with settling for lower grades than I used to on most stuff and a great deal of due diligence on any significant card I buy, I am sure altered cards have gotten through. But so far I can tolerate that relative risk, if the alternative is not to collect.

raulus · #8 09-17-2023, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't know what you've bought, or what it looks like, or from whom, so hard to comment. I went through this on a much smaller scale a very long time ago and downgraded most big ticket cards I had, because I didn't want to deal with the cloud of all the card doctoring. It was prevalent even back then. But I wasn't iinto very deep at the time. I hope you find a way to deal with it all, it does suck, no question.

If you’ve got time to waste and wanted to check out my higher grade more valuable stuff, a lot of it is here with my Mays set:

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...timeset/290520

A little more here with my McCovey set:

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...timeset/333139

Most of the items have pics attached, so you can dig down into the details if you’re so inclined.

Most of it was acquired in the last 10 years. Hundreds of different sellers online with eBay, including lots of other more traditional AHs, and a handful of reputable dealers offline. Certainly no single source, but lots of different places, including some AHs that I later learned are less loved around here, although it seems like most of the AHs have their fair share of detractors around here.

Your approach seems like a big step. But if you believe in it enough, then it makes sense.

Beercan collector · #9 09-17-2023, 04:50 PM

Love that 54 Mays 8.5 With the rough cut ,
Kudos to the grader

Lorewalker · #10 09-17-2023, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulus

If you�ve got time to waste and wanted to check out my higher grade more valuable stuff, a lot of it is here with my Mays set:

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...timeset/290520

A little more here with my McCovey set:

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...timeset/333139

Most of the items have pics attached, so you can dig down into the details if you�re so inclined.

Most of it was acquired in the last 10 years. Hundreds of different sellers online with eBay, including lots of other more traditional AHs, and a handful of reputable dealers offline. Certainly no single source, but lots of different places, including some AHs that I later learned are less loved around here, although it seems like most of the AHs have their fair share of detractors around here.

Your approach seems like a big step. But if you believe in it enough, then it makes sense.

I have not looked at the collection and even if I did I am not sure what can be deduced from scans of cards in holders. Card altering is pervasive in the hobby. If you really want to get a perspective on it, as I did at one point, read the numerous threads on blowout. If you are mainly into high grade I would say that is an area more prone to altering but as has been demonstrated altered material is making its way into all grades. It seems to be simply about the economics of it. If a card can be improved and the bump in grade justifies the cost of grading, time and effort, then that card will likely be altered by someone. Some collectors don't care because the holder cleanses the alteration and those collectors seem (right or wrong) to conclude the holder validates the card.

You can go to all kinds of steps to avoid altered stuff but unless you know for sure who submitted it and you know for sure that person is not someone who alters cards, you simply have to take another leap of faith.

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