The trend in Wagner cards

JeremyW · #1 09-25-2023, 05:05 PM

Pete- I don't see people paying $27K for a PSA1 M116 tomorrow. I'll admit that I don't have one to sell.

raulus · #2 09-25-2023, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyW

Pete- I don't see people paying $27K for a PSA1 M116 tomorrow. I'll admit that I don't have one to sell.

That�s right, dammit. They�ll pay $270k tomorrow, and they�ll be thankful it wasn�t even more.

JeremyW · #3 09-25-2023, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulus

That�s right, dammit. They�ll pay $270k tomorrow, and they�ll be thankful it wasn�t even more.

Should have said that I regret not having one to sell.

robertsmithnocure · #4 09-25-2023, 06:52 PM

I think a few of his cards, like his M116, may have gotten ahead of themselves, but I have always thought that there was upside in his cards. I still do, especially for some of his really rare stuff, like his W600, E107, etc.

chiprop · #5 09-25-2023, 07:09 PM

My opinion is that Wagner should not be 10x Cobb in any issue other than t206. Either M116 Cobb is too cheap or Wagner is too expensive. Maybe both statements are true.

IMG_4588.jpg

Rhotchkiss · #6 09-25-2023, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiprop

My opinion is that Wagner should not be 10x Cobb in any issue other than t206. Either M116 Cobb is too cheap or Wagner is too expensive. Maybe both statements are true.]

I generally agree with you. However, Cobb is much more available than Wagner. Wagner has almost no T cards - the few t206s and even fewer t216s. He also doesn’t have as many post cards as Cobb, and the majority of his playing career was before cards were mass produced. It’s virtually impossible to get anything Wagner pre 1909, which makes cards from 1909-11, when he was still playing at superstar level, all the more desirable.

Cobb is a better player and bigger star than Wagner. No doubt. But Wagner is tougher to find and it’s his face on the most famous card of all time.

I honestly think Wagner cards stay high, and, given that Kyle Herbert and Luka Doncic cards sell for as much in Goldin’s auction, may have room yet to run (admittedly, I am a bit biased toward Wagner items!). But $27k for an M116 PSA 1, even a blue, is mind boggling.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 09-25-2023, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I generally agree with you. However, Cobb is much more available than Wagner. Wagner has almost no T cards - the few t206s and even fewer t216s. He also doesn�t have as many post cards as Cobb, and the majority of his playing career was before cards were mass produced. It�s virtually impossible to get anything Wagner pre 1909, which makes cards from 1909-11, when he was still playing at superstar level, all the more desirable.

Cobb is a better player and bigger star than Wagner. No doubt. But Wagner is tougher to find and it�s his face on the most famous card of all time.

I honestly think Wagner cards stay high, and, given that Kyle Herbert and Luka Doncic cards sell for as much in Goldin�s auction, may have room yet to run (admittedly, I am a bit biased toward Wagner items!). But $27k for an M116 PSA 1, even a blue, is mind boggling.

That was no ordinary 1. Would that "extra" paper on the back soak off?

Mark · #8 09-30-2023, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I generally agree with you. However, Cobb is much more available than Wagner. Wagner has almost no T cards - the few t206s and even fewer t216s. He also doesn�t have as many post cards as Cobb, and the majority of his playing career was before cards were mass produced. It�s virtually impossible to get anything Wagner pre 1909, which makes cards from 1909-11, when he was still playing at superstar level, all the more desirable.

Cobb is a better player and bigger star than Wagner. No doubt. But Wagner is tougher to find and it�s his face on the most famous card of all time.

I honestly think Wagner cards stay high, and, given that Kyle Herbert and Luka Doncic cards sell for as much in Goldin�s auction, may have room yet to run (admittedly, I am a bit biased toward Wagner items!). But $27k for an M116 PSA 1, even a blue, is mind boggling.

I agree that the tremendous, new demand for Wagner cards is hard to explain. It's strange to think that more than a handful of people would think that any Wagner card is a shrewd $20K investment. But I disagree when you say that there is no doubt anywhere that Cobb was the greater player.

brunswickreeves · #9 10-01-2023, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I generally agree with you. However, Cobb is much more available than Wagner. Wagner has almost no T cards - the few t206s and even fewer t216s. He also doesn’t have as many post cards as Cobb, and the majority of his playing career was before cards were mass produced. It’s virtually impossible to get anything Wagner pre 1909, which makes cards from 1909-11, when he was still playing at superstar level, all the more desirable.

Cobb is a better player and bigger star than Wagner. No doubt. But Wagner is tougher to find and it’s his face on the most famous card of all time.

I honestly think Wagner cards stay high, and, given that Kyle Herbert and Luka Doncic cards sell for as much in Goldin’s auction, may have room yet to run (admittedly, I am a bit biased toward Wagner items!). But $27k for an M116 PSA 1, even a blue, is mind boggling.

To put data around this observation, there appears to be 5,006+/- graded (PSA, SGC, Beckett) Cobb portraits (green, red, pastel, blue, other). Whereas there are only 796+/- graded Wagner portraits (right and left facing, color and non-color). Please refer to POP reports for up to date and validation of totals. =6x fewer total Wagner portraits.

Vintageclout · #10 09-25-2023, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiprop

My opinion is that Wagner should not be 10x Cobb in any issue other than t206. Either M116 Cobb is too cheap or Wagner is too expensive. Maybe both statements are true.

Attachment 590734

Dan - Spot on accurate. For example, why is a PSA 2 E93 Wagner fetching $10K+ when a Cobb in the same grade is worth roughly $5-$6K at best. Totally off base and something has to give. Since I don�t see Wagner cards significantly dropping in value, the next staggering pricing increase will be for Ty Cobb �E� & �D� cards (M116s as well)....it�s coming!

Exhibitman · #11 09-26-2023, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiprop

My opinion is that Wagner should not be 10x Cobb in any issue other than t206. Either M116 Cobb is too cheap or Wagner is too expensive. Maybe both statements are true.

I fall more in line with Ryan on this issue. There is no simple formula given the disparity in numbers of cards each man has and certain idiosyncratic facts about some issues. As has been remarked earlier, a lot of collectors who have T206 Cobb portraits use the M116 Wagner as a replacement for the T206 Wagner they will never own. That makes a Horner Wagner image card often more desirable than a Cobb card from the same set.

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