Racism and baseball cards

Jay Wolt · #1 09-27-2023, 08:22 PM

Here's a blatant racist card made by a card company (Gad in 1963)

Chris-Counts · #2 09-27-2023, 08:54 PM

I was told by an authority on the topic that cards of African-American players in the 1949 and 1950 Remar Bread sets were tougher to find because some distributors refused carry them.

oaks1912 · #3 09-27-2023, 11:27 PM

Chris,
Absolutely correct. The Remars were distributed one player per week, free of charge, in most East Bay Area (Oakland) markets. However there are period collectors that lived in upper middle class areas (Kensington, Berkeley Hills, Piedmont for example) that do not remember seeing any cards of the black players being distributed at their local markets.

In diverse, middle class areas, such as the Berkeley flatlands, Richmond and East Oakland, all of the players were distributed at the local markets. I don't think the issue was with Remar Bakery, as owner Peter Pedersen sponsored around 100 youth baseball teams in and around Oakland beginning in the 1930's as part of the Remar Baseball League. The problem was likely with a few individual grocery store owners that either disagreed with integrating baseball, or that some of their customers may have been offended.

Three of the cards pictured were definitely tougher to acquire when I first started to build Remar sets 50 years ago. (Woods was the toughest for me to initially acquire) The Wilson card was likely printed in larger quantities due to his popularity with fans, and despite the absence from some retail markets (maybe 5-10%), other markets were likely given larger quantities, and the kids could grab as many as they wanted. Wilson, the last .400 hitter in the Negro Leagues also went on to become the PCL batting champ in '49 with a .348 average.

Mark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Counts

I was told by an authority on the topic that cards of African-American players in the 1949 and 1950 Remar Bread sets were tougher to find because some distributors refused carry them.

mrreality68 · #4 09-28-2023, 05:52 AM

And it is still effected today as many collectors will not buy cards of Cap Aanson because of his history of Racism

JustinD · #5 09-28-2023, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrreality68

And it is still effected today as many collectors will not buy cards of Cap Anson because of his history of Racism

I had not thought of this, the (for lack of a better term) virtue signaling of commenting on historical dislikes of people long dead seemingly effects the market more now than the current issues of the past. I would believe it does reflect stronger today. Some of the nonsense Stump published on Cobb seemed to affect pricing until many saw through the charade, the movie was a travesty.

That said I am sure there were isolated incidents such as noted on the Remars, but I doubt they were largely embraced. I would think it would more largely affect the pioneers of each sport far more that just players after the fact. If a true issue, then Jackie Robinson should be the most discarded and I see no discernable truth of that.

Exhibitman · #6 09-28-2023, 11:36 AM

Boxing provides a useful perspective on this because only boxing sets had cards of black athletes in decent numbers in the Jim Crow era.

There is a definite shortage of four 1910 T226 Red Sun boxing cards: Jack Johnson, Joe Gans, Joe Jeannette and Sam Langford. All were black fighters. No hard evidence as to whether they were short printed by the Louisiana company or simply thrown away when found, but there are very few of each in existence today. FWIW, I do not think it coincidental that every black man in the set is affected and given how few of these cards are out there, I think the intentional SP hypothesis is the more likely one. After all, those fighters were on numerous sets in the 1895-1912 period and those cards are not in such insanely short supply. They are found in the same approximate quantities as the other cards in the sets, which does not indicate a pervasive race-based trashing of cards.

There are numerous examples in boxing cards of black men being treated equal to white men with whom they competed. The most abundant boxing cards from 1921-1948 are Exhibit cards, and there were many black fighters in those sets. Although there was a form of gentleman's agreement after Jack Johnson's reign that kept the heavyweight title in a racial lockdown for 22 years, in 1937 Joe Louis won the title, a full 10 years and a world war before Jackie Robinson's debut. It seems to me that in boxing cards, with rare exceptions, if the man was given a chance to compete and did well, he was respected. Look at the back of the 1948 Leaf Louis card, which says Louis is "considered greatest heavyweight of all time."

G1911 · #7 09-28-2023, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Boxing provides a useful perspective on this because only boxing sets had cards of black athletes in decent numbers in the Jim Crow era.

There is a definite shortage of four 1910 T226 Red Sun boxing cards: Jack Johnson, Joe Gans, Joe Jeannette and Sam Langford. All were black fighters. No hard evidence as to whether they were short printed by the Louisiana company or simply thrown away when found, but there are very few of each in existence today. FWIW, I do not think it coincidental that every black man in the set is affected and given how few of these cards are out there, I think the intentional SP hypothesis is the more likely one. After all, those fighters were on numerous sets in the 1895-1912 period and those cards are not in such insanely short supply. They are found in the same approximate quantities as the other cards in the sets, which does not indicate a pervasive race-based trashing of cards.

There are numerous examples in boxing cards of black men being treated equal to white men with whom they competed. The most abundant boxing cards from 1921-1948 are Exhibit cards, and there were many black fighters in those sets. Although there was a form of gentleman's agreement after Jack Johnson's reign that kept the heavyweight title in a racial lockdown for 22 years, in 1937 Joe Louis won the title, a full 10 years and a world war before Jackie Robinson's debut. It seems to me that in boxing cards, with rare exceptions, if the man was given a chance to compete and did well, he was respected. Look at the back of the 1948 Leaf Louis card, which says Louis is "considered greatest heavyweight of all time."

At about the same time, the same parent company super printed Jack Johnson for T218 as the sole superprint in the set.

Republicaninmass · #8 09-30-2023, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Boxing provides a useful perspective on this because only boxing sets had cards of black athletes in decent numbers in the Jim Crow era.

There is a definite shortage of four 1910 T226 Red Sun boxing cards: Jack Johnson, Joe Gans, Joe Jeannette and Sam Langford. All were black fighters. No hard evidence as to whether they were short printed by the Louisiana company or simply thrown away when found, but there are very few of each in existence today. FWIW, I do not think it coincidental that every black man in the set is affected and given how few of these cards are out there, I think the intentional SP hypothesis is the more likely one. After all, those fighters were on numerous sets in the 1895-1912 period and those cards are not in such insanely short supply. They are found in the same approximate quantities as the other cards in the sets, which does not indicate a pervasive race-based trashing of cards.

There are numerous examples in boxing cards of black men being treated equal to white men with whom they competed. The most abundant boxing cards from 1921-1948 are Exhibit cards, and there were many black fighters in those sets. Although there was a form of gentleman's agreement after Jack Johnson's reign that kept the heavyweight title in a racial lockdown for 22 years, in 1937 Joe Louis won the title, a full 10 years and a world war before Jackie Robinson's debut. It seems to me that in boxing cards, with rare exceptions, if the man was given a chance to compete and did well, he was respected. Look at the back of the 1948 Leaf Louis card, which says Louis is "considered greatest heavyweight of all time."

Hi Adam, I always lived the t9s. Sadly I sold before the prices went ballistic. Anyhow, they were a.premium and hand ordered , so is there any evidence the black boxers were ordered less frequently? I only remember hearing Johnny Marto was difficult. A short Italian who likely identified as Caucasian for those who don't know the set

bk400 · #9 02-28-2025, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Boxing provides a useful perspective on this because only boxing sets had cards of black athletes in decent numbers in the Jim Crow era.

There is a definite shortage of four 1910 T226 Red Sun boxing cards: Jack Johnson, Joe Gans, Joe Jeannette and Sam Langford. All were black fighters. No hard evidence as to whether they were short printed by the Louisiana company or simply thrown away when found, but there are very few of each in existence today. FWIW, I do not think it coincidental that every black man in the set is affected and given how few of these cards are out there, I think the intentional SP hypothesis is the more likely one. After all, those fighters were on numerous sets in the 1895-1912 period and those cards are not in such insanely short supply. They are found in the same approximate quantities as the other cards in the sets, which does not indicate a pervasive race-based trashing of cards.

There are numerous examples in boxing cards of black men being treated equal to white men with whom they competed. The most abundant boxing cards from 1921-1948 are Exhibit cards, and there were many black fighters in those sets. Although there was a form of gentleman's agreement after Jack Johnson's reign that kept the heavyweight title in a racial lockdown for 22 years, in 1937 Joe Louis won the title, a full 10 years and a world war before Jackie Robinson's debut. It seems to me that in boxing cards, with rare exceptions, if the man was given a chance to compete and did well, he was respected. Look at the back of the 1948 Leaf Louis card, which says Louis is "considered greatest heavyweight of all time."

This is an interesting historical observation.

BioCRN · #10 09-28-2023, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrreality68

And it is still effected today as many collectors will not buy cards of Cap Aanson because of his history of Racism

As a Cubs collector, Anson's issue is more powerful than simple racism.

Many people and players were racist at this point in time as it was socially acceptable, but Anson wielded his power and influence to institutionalize racism as an operating procedure in the game.

That's a major reason racist like Jimmy Ryan is in the somewhat recently created Cubs Team HOF and Cap Anson isn't.

Shankweather · #11 10-10-2023, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BioCRN

As a Cubs collector, Anson's issue is more powerful than simple racism.

Many people and players were racist at this point in time as it was socially acceptable, but Anson wielded his power and influence to institutionalize racism as an operating procedure in the game.

That's a major reason racist like Jimmy Ryan is in the somewhat recently created Cubs Team HOF and Cap Anson isn't.

As a chronicler of the whole history of Cubs baseball cards, the Anson thing is incredibly tough for me. Anson was a huge star and would be the perfect grandfather of Chicago baseball, except for that whole "who he was" thing. I don't ignore his cards, but instead lean into the Anson/Banks contrast. Anson perpetuated the color barrier and Ernie Banks, at least for the Cubs, broke it. Ernie looks even better in comparison.

And I definitely support the team's decision to leave him out of the Cubs HOF. Now if they would just put in Wild Bill Hutchison and Bill Nicholson.

ALBB · #12 10-10-2023, 01:54 PM

and then there were those mid 60s " tract " cards....they were called-
with a religious slant

Peter_Spaeth · #13 09-27-2023, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Here's a blatant racist card made by a card company (Gad in 1963)

A lovely Pele rookie.

Exhibitman · #14 09-27-2023, 09:58 PM

Counterpoint:

Casey2296 · #15 09-27-2023, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Counterpoint:

Nice Adam, I expect this thread will degrade quickly. Can someone please post a card of Mr. Rickey.

Exhibitman · #16 09-29-2023, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Nice Adam, I expect this thread will degrade quickly. Can someone please post a card of Mr. Rickey.

These blotters were just the sort of thing I collected when prewar cards started to get beyond my reach. I can't believe that they are now $2500 items.

ronniehatesjazz · #17 09-29-2023, 10:19 PM

Interesting topic. I doubt it was a major issue considering the early Jackie promos with Old Gold Cigarettes and Bond Bread. That's definitely an outlier considering the circumstances with him at the time. Surprisingly, there doesn't seem to be a shortage of cards for other african-american stars at the time... just think about the Campy, Doby, Paige (doubt his SPs were a result of his race), Doby cards from about the same time.

To me, the biggest travesties are the fact that Campy cards are drastically undervalued to this day. I don't think it has anything to do with racism but how can a 3x MVP in a major market, on a storied franchise, with an amazing story, have early cards available for peanuts is beyond me. Also, it's a real shame that the average american still doesn't know who Larry Doby is. At least he got into the HOF while he was living.

Snapolit1 · #18 09-30-2023, 10:54 AM

Larry Doby was a neighbor of mine in Montclair, NJ. I'd say 3/4 of the people in town had no idea who he was. Terrible. His son Larry Doby, Jr. does a wonderful job keeping his legacy alive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz

Interesting topic. I doubt it was a major issue considering the early Jackie promos with Old Gold Cigarettes and Bond Bread. That's definitely an outlier considering the circumstances with him at the time. Surprisingly, there doesn't seem to be a shortage of cards for other african-american stars at the time... just think about the Campy, Doby, Paige (doubt his SPs were a result of his race), Doby cards from about the same time.

To me, the biggest travesties are the fact that Campy cards are drastically undervalued to this day. I don't think it has anything to do with racism but how can a 3x MVP in a major market, on a storied franchise, with an amazing story, have early cards available for peanuts is beyond me. Also, it's a real shame that the average american still doesn't know who Larry Doby is. At least he got into the HOF while he was living.

perezfan · #19 09-30-2023, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz

Interesting topic. I doubt it was a major issue considering the early Jackie promos with Old Gold Cigarettes and Bond Bread. That's definitely an outlier considering the circumstances with him at the time. Surprisingly, there doesn't seem to be a shortage of cards for other african-american stars at the time... just think about the Campy, Doby, Paige (doubt his SPs were a result of his race), Doby cards from about the same time.

To me, the biggest travesties are the fact that Campy cards are drastically undervalued to this day. I don't think it has anything to do with racism but how can a 3x MVP in a major market, on a storied franchise, with an amazing story, have early cards available for peanuts is beyond me. Also, it's a real shame that the average american still doesn't know who Larry Doby is. At least he got into the HOF while he was living.

Fully agree....

Larry Doby debuted with the Indians a mere 11 weeks after Jackie Robinson did with Brooklyn. Just 11 weeks difference, and virtually nobody knows who he is!

Here's a video we did a while back that deals with vintage pennants, but same basic topic as is being discussed here. Perhaps some of you will find it interesting. Here's the link...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US1RRRSWzNE

calvindog · #20 09-30-2023, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz

To me, the biggest travesties are the fact that Campy cards are drastically undervalued to this day. I don't think it has anything to do with racism but how can a 3x MVP in a major market, on a storied franchise, with an amazing story, have early cards available for peanuts is beyond me. Also, it's a real shame that the average american still doesn't know who Larry Doby is. At least he got into the HOF while he was living.

I love Campy's cards and there are some great ones. Here's my favorite:

Bigdaddy · #21 02-28-2025, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz

Also, it's a real shame that the average american still doesn't know who Larry Doby is. At least he got into the HOF while he was living.

Yeah, ask Buzz Aldrin about this. Second man on the moon, minutes after Neil Armstrong.

Brent G. · #22 02-28-2025, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Here's a blatant racist card made by a card company (Gad in 1963)

THIS is beyond words, especially for a product made in Minnesota.

mortimer brewster · #23 02-28-2025, 03:46 PM

In the late 1960s baseball digest magazine when profiling Major League prospects would routinely include the players race.

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