PSA Card Guarantee

Leon · #1 10-02-2023, 09:49 AM

The person who graded the Wagner told me that he couldn't see evidence of trimming, and without any other evidence to any alteration, gave it it's rightful grade of 8. I believe him.

I agree with your other assessments, Cory. Hope you are well...

edited to say, I have always believed detecting trimming is not close to foolproof or scientific (yet). Most graders, of any consequence, would agree.
.

Quote:

Originally Posted by benjulmag

When PSA came into existence, the main concern at that time was not altered cards, but instead the subjective nature of grading. One person's 8 was another person's 5. I remember quite vividly a major dealer at one of the card shows displaying altered cards in an attempt to alert the hobby about what he felt was coming. This dealer did this precisely because of his concern the threat of alterations was not sufficiently appreciated. To go further, I find it hard to fathom that PSA would have given the "8 Wagner" a numerical grade if at that time their business model was focused around detecting alterations. PSA might be arrogant and stupid, but not that stupid. Despite what they or anybody else might say today, based on what I have been told by reliable people with first-hand information, they KNEW the card was altered. So, despite their desire for the publicity grading the card could give them, it would seem crazy to give Serial No. 00000001 to a card their principal grader believed to be trimmed (and which, IMO any grader with a modicum of competence could plainly see was trimmed) if they knew such a grade would directly contradict their business model.

To go further, I don't think anybody at that time could have forecast where we are today -- cards selling for levels exponentially greater than they did 30 years ago when a one grade uptick could add 5 to 6 figures of value. What all this tells me is that the next evolution in grading will be forensic grading. THAT would mean something in giving a reasonable assurance the card has not been altered. As to how or if that will ever happen, I don't know. But if I had the capital and inclination to start such a company, I would do it.

Skeptics will say such a company will never come into being because there will be no market demand for it, that the great majority of the hobby doesn't care if a card is trimmed as long as they get the number they want on the almighty slab. Well, that may be true now because there is no viable option. If there were, I would think an informed collector contemplating buying an expensive card that is a prime candidate for being trimmed would be economically incentivized to spend an additional few percent to get meaningful assurance the card is what it is purported to be.

benjulmag · #2 10-02-2023, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

The person who graded the Wagner told me that he couldn't see evidence of trimming, and without any other evidence to any alteration, gave it it's rightful grade of 8. I believe him.

I agree with your other assessments, Cory. Hope you are well...

edited to say, I have always believed detecting trimming is not close to foolproof or scientific (yet). Most graders, of any consequence, would agree.
.

Leon,

I'm not going to name names, but that is not the information I have, which is first-hand info coming directly from those involved in inspecting the card when it was first submitted to PSA. Their head grader at the time was a friend of mine who I did a fair amount of business with. So if you were told something else, the story has changed.

From a common-sense perspective, I find it hard to believe that PSA could not know it was trimmed, the trimming IMO being so obvious to anyone experienced in T206s. In another thread about the card, one poster, an experienced card dealer, said he was offered the card at the Willow Grove show where Mastro took it immediately after purchasing it from Sevchuck, and he (and others) turned it down precisely because they thought it was trimmed.

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