Heritage Auctions - Boston Garters

[calvindog]

As typical of Net 54, there has to be hand-wringing over every possible legal avenue and people who just need to be contrarians. It’s very simple: the auction was screwed up by Heritage by shutting down the full set lot while continuing to allow the single lots to run. This was a failure which defeated the very concept of an auction. It is Heritage’s fault, period. No one else’s. As I wrote to a friend in a text at 11:26 pm that night, during extended bidding: “The poor guy who had the high for the set is screwed if we push it over.” Referring to bidding on the individual lots while the full set lot was closed.

The only fair resolution to all the bidders and the consigner is to redo the auction and if the consigner loses money from the new final bids, Heritage should make up that difference to him — BECAUSE THIS MESS WAS THEIR FAULT AND THEIR FAULT ONLY. Instead of spending days trying to cover their ass and lie to all involved, Heritage should simply admit they screwed up and fix it — at their expense.

[Aaron Seefeldt]

I paid my invoice for the Baker yesterday via wire transfer. I now have a receipt showing “paid in full” and my account balance has been zeroed out with Heritage.

[Powell]

I relied on reading the lot, my account confirming I won and experience in bidding on thousands and thousands of items over 20 years. Did I sit down and read the “terms and conditions”? Of course not! Nor will I ever accept that I should have. That’s like the insurance company relying on the fine print to deny a just claim.

[notfast]

Originally Posted by Powell

I relied on reading the lot, my account confirming I won and experience in bidding on thousands and thousands of items over 20 years. Did I sit down and read the “terms and conditions”? Of course not! Nor will I ever accept that I should have. That’s like the insurance company relying on the fine print to deny a just claim.

The whole “my account said I won” argument isn’t great.

I mean…PWCC just had an issue and had thousands of “you’ve won!” emails go out. Does that mean everyone should be awarded those items? Obviously not.

Obviously heritage should have ran this auction differently/better but the wording posted above in the set listing is very cut and dry.

Plus we all know as soon as we bid on something, we are agreeing to their rules, terms, conditions etc…even if they suck.

[molenick]

I don't think there will be a re-do. If the individual bidders like Aaron were invoiced and paid for their lots they now expect to get their cards. The only thing that would stop this is if Heritage decided not to send the cards. But then every individual bidder will say what Powell is saying now....you told me I won, you invoiced me, I paid, I want my card(s). With the difference that Powell was never invoiced.

In the view of Heritage, while at one point Powell was told he won his lot, at the end of the entire auction he was told he did not win his lot. So in their eyes, he did not win and he was not invoiced.

What should have appeared on Powell's screen was a message to the effect of "you are the high bidder on this lot and no one else can bid on it...however, you may not win this lot if the individual lots surpass your bid" (in a shorter version, of course). The problem is they told Powell he won when the bidding ended on the group lot...which he understandably took to mean, it is over, I won.

[Powell]

And here the fine print doesn’t say you must manually and constantly add up the individual lots and can’t rely on the web site or that you are declared the winner in your account or that closing the set doesn’t mean you didn’t win or that you must bid on every lot and against yourself on the set and do so before extended bidding or your shut out.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Aaron Seefeldt

I paid my invoice for the Baker yesterday via wire transfer. I now have a receipt showing “paid in full” and my account balance has been zeroed out with Heritage.

Hi Aaron
While I am glad you won the card, how would you feel if you were Powell?
.

[Aaron Seefeldt]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hi Aaron
While I am glad you won the card, how would you feel if you were Powell?
.

Hi Leon, I hope you are well. I have been trying to keep my feelings and opinions out of it, for that’s when I get in trouble (especially on a public forum). I originally posted on this thread out of joy and excitement because I “won” the Baker. I did not expect nor anticipate this thread would go “KABOOM!”

I empathize with Powell. I do. I hope any pain or anguish this has caused him will fade over time. I share his passion (and yours Leon) for collecting and I wish you all only the best.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by calvindog

The only fair resolution to all the bidders and the consigner is to redo the auction and if the consigner loses money from the new final bids, Heritage should make up that difference to him — BECAUSE THIS MESS WAS THEIR FAULT AND THEIR FAULT ONLY. Instead of spending days trying to cover their ass and lie to all involved, Heritage should simply admit they screwed up and fix it — at their expense.

I've come around to this do-over approach. Those insisting that the individual lots won in accordance with the terms set forth in the description are missing the point entirely. In a race like this, a key implied term is that the listings close at the same time. It's the only way it can work without forcing bidders to use shills to bid against themselves and extend the auction.

Every participant understands that if the total bid for individual lots exceeds the bid for the whole set, the individual lots win. No participant in his/her right mind would have placed bids with the assumption that the complete set would be closed early due to lack of direct competition, while bidders on the individual lots could keep going. As Powell mentioned upthread, that would make the process of bidding on the entire set illusory in a scenario where a deep-pocketed bidder has no opponent but himself, and it's illogical to assume that Heritage, the consignor, or the bidder set the auction terms intending to create an illusory process that prevents competition and depresses the final price.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

As typical of Net 54, there has to be hand-wringing over every possible legal avenue and people who just need to be contrarians. It’s very simple: the auction was screwed up by Heritage by shutting down the full set lot while continuing to allow the single lots to run. This was a failure which defeated the very concept of an auction. It is Heritage’s fault, period. No one else’s. As I wrote to a friend in a text at 11:26 pm that night, during extended bidding: “The poor guy who had the high for the set is screwed if we push it over.” Referring to bidding on the individual lots while the full set lot was closed.

The only fair resolution to all the bidders and the consigner is to redo the auction and if the consigner loses money from the new final bids, Heritage should make up that difference to him — BECAUSE THIS MESS WAS THEIR FAULT AND THEIR FAULT ONLY. Instead of spending days trying to cover their ass and lie to all involved, Heritage should simply admit they screwed up and fix it — at their expense.

I agree for the most part, although as even you noted at 11:26pm that night, this was outcome was predictable. I do think Heritage should extend the auction though. No need to restart from ground zero however. I prefer how PWCC handles it. They just extend the bidding from where things left off. All prior bids are still in place, and all eligible bidders are able to bid again. This is the solution I would offer.

But to just say Powell won is not an option. He did not win per the clearly stated rules. Regardless of how unfair it was.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I agree for the most part, although as even you noted at 11:26pm that night, this was outcome was predictable. I do think Heritage should extend the auction though. No need to restart from ground zero however. I prefer how PWCC handles it. They just extend the bidding from where things left off. All prior bids are still in place, and all eligible bidders are able to bid again. This is the solution I would offer.

But to just say Powell won is not an option. He did not win per the clearly stated rules. Regardless of how unfair it was.

I would normally agree with this, but I am sure invoices and payments have been sent out/paid by now.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I would normally agree with this, but I am sure invoices and payments have been sent out/paid by now.

They could undo that. Just refund the money. To me the question is have they shipped any cards.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They could undo that. Just refund the money. To me the question is have they shipped any cards.

Its been 2 plus days since the auction closed. I think you have your answer.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Its been 2 plus days since the auction closed. I think you have your answer.

Not sure I follow. So you're saying it's too soon for that to have happened?

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not sure I follow. So you're saying it's too soon for that to have happened?

No, I am saying too much time has passed for a redo. Heritage is moving forward with the sale of the individual cards.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I agree for the most part, although as even you noted at 11:26pm that night, this was outcome was predictable. I do think Heritage should extend the auction though. No need to restart from ground zero however. I prefer how PWCC handles it. They just extend the bidding from where things left off. All prior bids are still in place, and all eligible bidders are able to bid again. This is the solution I would offer.

But to just say Powell won is not an option. He did not win per the clearly stated rules. Regardless of how unfair it was.

I don’t disagree at all. Powell didn’t win unless all lots, the individual and aggregate, were kept open. And they weren’t. It’s an easy fix here. Re-auction the cards correctly, give everyone a fair chance, and make up any potential shortfall to the consigner so he agrees to this resolution. This is an easy fix — let’s see if Heritage can understand this.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I prefer how PWCC handles it.

Color me surprised