Contemporary Baseball Era Committee for Managers/Executives/Umpires for Hall of Fame

Misunderestimated · #1 10-19-2023, 08:19 PM

I think the two best GM-Execs of the contemporary ERA are not on the ballot:
Theo Epstein and Brian Cashman.
Both are relatively young and Cashman (who might be the most perfectly named figure in baseball history) is still an active GM.

BioCRN · #2 10-19-2023, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misunderestimated

I think the two best GM-Execs of the contemporary ERA are not on the ballot:
Theo Epstein and Brian Cashman.
Both are relatively young and Cashman (who might be the most perfectly named figure in baseball history) is still an active GM.

Theo is on the Contemporary Era committee. It's either too early or a great way to stuff the ballot box depending on how you look at it.

Even if one wants to pick apart the true merits of Theo, getting BOS + CHC to win a World Series...yeah, he's in. He slayed 2 dragons in 2 cities as an executive before turning 50.

Casey2296 · #3 10-19-2023, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Theo is on the Contemporary Era committee. It's either too early or a great way to stuff the ballot box depending on how you look at it.

Even if one wants to pick apart the true merits of Theo, getting BOS + CHC to win a World Series...yeah, he's in. He slayed 2 dragons in 2 cities as an executive before turning 50.

+1

perezfan · #4 10-20-2023, 03:21 PM

Bob Howsam built the Big Red Machine. And on a very small budget, to boot. Whether or not he deserves enshrinement is one thing, but I would put him up against every single nominee on that mediocre list.

Misunderestimated · #5 10-20-2023, 04:14 PM

Best Managers (modern era) not in HOF:

Terry Francona
Bruce Bochy
Dusty Baker
(Bochy and Baker are the only 2 over 2000 Wins not yet in the HOF -- Francona made it to 1950)

Then

Pinella
Leyland
Gaston (he didn't quite win 1000 games which is historically low for a HOF Manager who wasn't a player/manager)
Davy Johnson
---
Raloh Houk
Joe Maddon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...nagers_by_wins
======

Peter_Spaeth · #6 10-20-2023, 04:23 PM

Bochy has 2100 losses too.

Fred · #7 10-20-2023, 05:15 PM

Bochy has (4) WS appearances and (3) WS titles. He's done well with clubs that were considered "small markets" with really conservative budgets. Now that he's with Texas and a team with a HUGE player budget, he seems to have done pretty good, not that he was horrible with the Padres and Giants.

The thing that holds Bochy back are more managerial losses than wins lifetime.

Hey, anybody have any thoughts on Harry Pulliam as an executive?

From Wikipedia:

"Harry Clay Pulliam (February 9, 1869 � July 29, 1909) was an American baseball executive who served as the sixth President of the National League. He served from 1903 until his death in 1909. He was president during the period in which the National League and the fledgling American League settled their hostilities and formed a National Agreement which led to the creation of the World Series."

jayshum · #8 10-20-2023, 05:17 PM

It's hard to decide how to rate managers because it depends so much on the players they have to work with. When Terry Francona was managing the Phillies, no one talked about how great he was as a manager, but the Phillies didn't have very good teams then. Bochy is a little under .500 for his career but has won 3 World Series so is he a Hall of Fame manager with a record under .500?

Was Joe Torre a great manager or was he just lucky to be the Yankees manager when Mariano Rivera and Derek Jeter (among others) happened to be on the team? When he was hired by the Yankees, the New York Daily News called him Clueless Joe based on his prior managing career which was well under .500 before he got to the Yankees. Did the Yankees win 4 World Series because of him or in spite of him being the manager?

Peter_Spaeth · #9 10-20-2023, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayshum

It's hard to decide how to rate managers because it depends so much on the players they have to work with. When Terry Francona was managing the Phillies, no one talked about how great he was as a manager, but the Phillies didn't have very good teams then. Bochy is a little under .500 for his career but has won 3 World Series so is he a Hall of Fame manager with a record under .500?

Was Joe Torre a great manager or was he just lucky to be the Yankees manager when Mariano Rivera and Derek Jeter (among others) happened to be on the team? When he was hired by the Yankees, the New York Daily News called him Clueless Joe based on his prior managing career which was well under .500 before he got to the Yankees. Did the Yankees win 4 World Series because of him or in spite of him being the manager?

How long was Casey Stengel a nobody as a manager? A long time.

jayshum · #10 10-20-2023, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How long was Casey Stengel a nobody as a manager? A long time.

Stengel is another great example. Nothing like 12 seasons with the Yankees to make your managerial record look good.

A quote from Warren Spahn - "I'm probably the only guy who worked for (Casey) Stengel before and after he was a genius."

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