Contemporary Baseball Era Committee for Managers/Executives/Umpires for Hall of Fame

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jayshum

It's hard to decide how to rate managers because it depends so much on the players they have to work with. When Terry Francona was managing the Phillies, no one talked about how great he was as a manager, but the Phillies didn't have very good teams then. Bochy is a little under .500 for his career but has won 3 World Series so is he a Hall of Fame manager with a record under .500?

Was Joe Torre a great manager or was he just lucky to be the Yankees manager when Mariano Rivera and Derek Jeter (among others) happened to be on the team? When he was hired by the Yankees, the New York Daily News called him Clueless Joe based on his prior managing career which was well under .500 before he got to the Yankees. Did the Yankees win 4 World Series because of him or in spite of him being the manager?

How long was Casey Stengel a nobody as a manager? A long time.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How long was Casey Stengel a nobody as a manager? A long time.

Stengel is another great example. Nothing like 12 seasons with the Yankees to make your managerial record look good.

A quote from Warren Spahn - "I'm probably the only guy who worked for (Casey) Stengel before and after he was a genius."

[jayshum]

I don't think there are any analytics that have been developed to analyze the impact a manager has on a team winning games. If anyone is aware of anything, please provide information about what there is.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I don't think there are any analytics that have been developed to analyze the impact a manager has on a team winning games. If anyone is aware of anything, please provide information about what there is.

If there was, Dave Roberts would be the worst post season manager of all time.

[Misunderestimated]

THis is the most thoughtful thing written on HOF managers I'm aware of (Bill James, of course)
https://www.billjamesonline.com/the_..._fame_manager/


Earlier, in 1997, he wrote a whoie (great) book on managers from "1870 to Today"

This article is also interesting:
https://tht.fangraphs.com/evaluating-managers/

[ValKehl]

FWIW, HOFer Bucky Harris has a losing record as a manager - 2,158 wins vs. 2,219 losses. He won 3 pennants and 2 WS titles - in 1924 with the Senators and in 1947 with the Yankees.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

FWIW, HOFer Bucky Harris has a losing record as a manager - 2,158 wins vs. 2,219 losses. He won 3 pennants and 2 WS titles - in 1924 with the Senators and in 1947 with the Yankees.

That's supports a good case for Bochy.

[Steve D]

Personally, I could see both Leyland and Piniella being elected:

Leyland:

22 years - 1,769 wins
8 times in playoffs
6 division titles
1997 world series champ
3-time league champ
3-time manager of the year (MOTY)
3-time runner-up for MOTY
Managed Team-USA to WBC title in 2017

Piniella:

23 years - 1,835 wins
7 times in playoffs
6 division titles
1990 world series champ
3-time MOTY
1-time runner-up for MOTY
American League record 116 wins with 2001 Mariners

Steve

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Misunderestimated

THis is the most thoughtful thing written on HOF managers I'm aware of (Bill James, of course)
https://www.billjamesonline.com/the_..._fame_manager/


Earlier, in 1997, he wrote a whoie (great) book on managers from "1870 to Today"

This article is also interesting:
https://tht.fangraphs.com/evaluating-managers/

Thanks for posting the links. I like how Bill James tries to come up with some measure of expected performance for a team that can be compared to how they actually did as a way to evaluate how a manager did, but I still think that leaves out personnel changes from one season to the next. If lost 100 games then sign 3 big free agents, basing an expected record on the previous 2 seasons doesn't seem that valid. For managers pre free agency, maybe it works a little better, but still players change from year to year.

[Tabe]

I don't see much of a case for any of the managers. Gaston had two titles but did absolutely nothing else and had a short career. Piniella and Leyland are both remembered as having teams that underperformed. Piniella won 116 games - swept in the playoffs. Had Unit, ARod, Junior, and Edgar - all in their primes - and did nothing with them.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I don't see much of a case for any of the managers. Gaston had two titles but did absolutely nothing else and had a short career. Piniella and Leyland are both remembered as having teams that underperformed. Piniella won 116 games - swept in the playoffs. Had Unit, ARod, Junior, and Edgar - all in their primes - and did nothing with them.

Dang! A definite die hard Mariners fan! That was a great season for Seattle, I thought they were going to clean house in the post season that year.