This is Vent Thread - Lets define "Pumper" relating to this section of this website

ALBB · #1 11-03-2023, 07:29 AM

then there's the ever popular - Pump and Dump

theshowandme · #2 11-03-2023, 08:04 AM

I asked ChatGPT on the proper definition

Leon · #3 11-03-2023, 08:21 AM

I have never thought of this place as a place for pumpers, except on the BST. Just because I like to show my cards, it doesn't mean I am pumping. Who needs to advertise how rare something is when most of us already know?

BabyRuth · #4 11-03-2023, 08:57 AM

After my wife's dinner last night, I felt like a plumper.

Exhibitman · #5 11-03-2023, 09:20 AM

You're not a card pumper, Ryan. More of a card fluffer

I kid you, my friend.

Pump without dump is an empty label. I am a proud pumper of cards I like. So what? I publicize what I find to be unstudied and interesting and I encourage others to join the party. I just did an article on NASCAR postcards because I bought a giant collection of them and thought they were really cool and shockingly unstudied. And yeah, there will be NASCAR stuff on my table at the upcoming November 18-19 Pasadena show. This is supposed to be fun and social. Demented and sad, perhaps, but social. What am I supposed to do, hide in my man-cave fondling old cardboard finds? That was the MO of the Bruces, not normal people.

The irony is that in some cases all i do is make it harder for me to collect what I am publicizing, but that's the risk of disseminating information. In other cases i definitely plan to sell off what I publicize, and I have zero problems doing that, as long as I honestly portray my subjects. If someone decides to assign me some cred, thats their choice. I'm just some jackhole with a blog and a penchant for researching and writing about cards; my advice is free and worth every cent you pay for it. I think cards are a great investment/business...if you know what you are doing. if not, if you just chase trends because some twerp with a man-purse and an Adderall habit talks them up on the internet, you are a sheep asking to be sheared. Those folks need to stop worrying about what others are buying (as my mother used to say, who died and appointed you king?) and think critically for themselves. Put in your 10,000 hours and you won't have to worry about pumpers; you'll spot the bullshit from a mile away. and ignore it like dog poo on the street.

Rhotchkiss · #6 11-03-2023, 09:15 AM

Don, thank you for that. According to that definition, pumping is anchored in profit motive through deception and manipulation. Pumpers are actively "distorting the market and taking advantage of others' genuine interest in collecting".

Aside from the BST, I do not see that happening here. Never. Sure, people may post and talk up cards they own, likely genuinely believing they are good buys/investments (I have done that many times). But I don't see people purposely making false or deceptive statements in an effort to take advantage of people. In fact, if anything, I think the overwhelming population on this site genuinely wants to help others and participate in constructive dialogue about cards.

Admittedly, this post is directed at G1911, who uses the term 20x more than the collective community combined, insists in every other post that there is an outcry to liquidate 401k's to buy cards, borrow money one cant afford to repay to buy cards, and that he has been assured by many on this site that cards are only going up and up. I am so sick of this garbage.

Here are links to the 401k and the borrowing discussion. They are great reads on many levels.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...rement+account

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...rement+account

Nobody promotes draining a 401k to buy a card, let alone a specific card they have a financial interest in. And nobody promotes borrowing money one does not have to buy a card they cannot afford, and most certainly not to buy a specific card someone has a financial interest in. Instead, there is great discussion about cards as investments, particularly as compared to other asset classes, and when it makes sense to buy cards when you may not have the immediate liquidity/means to do so.

The discussion generally breaks along two different lines -- (1) those, like me, who feel cards are an asset class and an investment and who are willing to take some risk in order to pursue the potential returns cards may provide (like any investment), and (2) those, like G1911, who views cards only as a hobby and does not see the merit of buying cards for investments. I respect the opinion of those in this second group. But that does not render the opinions of those in the first group incorrect, let alone reckless. And it certainly does not render that group "pumpers" who promote draining 401ks, borrowing money to buy things you cant afford, and believers that cards will always and only go up.

I guess, I started this thread to call out G1911, who continues to peddle the myth that this board is full of pumpers, as he defines them. That is simply not true. This board has many people who do feel cards are assets and discusses them as such, but that does not make them pumpers or crusaders of irresponsible spending, specifically on things they own so that they can profit off others. Expressing an opinion, is not pumping. Being bullish on something and stating such is not pumping. Prioritizing a card over stock or other more traditional uses of money is not pumping, even when you admit you have done so.

G1911 · #7 11-03-2023, 09:36 AM

How it started:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Perhaps I am taking this personally, but I feel the term (especially as used quite often by one poster in particular) is aimed at anyone who views cards as viable investments, having a true asset value, rather than just cardboard to be collected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Also BTW -- I am not trying to pick a fight, but rather, I am genuinely interested to understand the profile of a "pumper" on the prewar section of Net54, because that term gets a lot of run and I think it should be publicly defined so everyone knows whats intended when its used.

The actual truth:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Admittedly, this post is directed at G1911, who uses the term 20x more than the collective community combined, insists in every other post that there is an outcry to liquidate 401k's to buy cards, borrow money one cant afford to repay to buy cards, and that he has been assured by many on this site that cards are only going up and up. I am so sick of this garbage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I guess, I started this thread to call out G1911, who continues to peddle the myth that this board is full of pumpers, as he defines them. That is simply not true. This board has many people who do feel cards are assets and discusses them as such, but that does not make them pumpers or crusaders of irresponsible spending, specifically on things they own so that they can profit off others.

What a massive contradiction. I'm shocked. I was wondering at what point actual honesty would actually crop up instead of the obviously lying OP lol.

Exhibitman · #8 11-03-2023, 09:46 AM

Greg, Ryan, if you make me stop this car and come back there you are both going to be sorry.

G1911 · #9 11-03-2023, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Greg, Ryan, if you make me stop this car and come back there you are both going to be sorry.

Sorry Adam

. Here, have some boxing cards. There was no baseball within reach.

Rhotchkiss · #10 11-03-2023, 10:04 AM

I have said it before G1911 -- I do not like you and I think you are a dipshit. That is no secret and I am happy to, again, state that publicly.

That said, I am genuinely interested to see if the rest of this community agrees with your definition of what a pumper is.

Almost anytime someone asks an investment-financial related question, you quip in with your "pumper" BS. For example, 16 posts into the very recent thread called "How did this all Start", a thread that asks a genuine question and contains legitimate discussion, you state:

"A whole lot of collectibles and hobbies saw spikes with many people hiding inside, not working much, and getting paid still. The only surprise is that some people are surprised the pumpers weren't right and the market is falling instead of continuing to just go up forever. None of the pumpers were willing to share the screenshots of them cashing out their 401K's to buy cards like they were advising others to do for some reason. Wonder why."

Nobody on this site ever said this. You try to make every investment/money-based thread about pumpers, draining 401ks, and a market that only goes up. I believe you are wrong and I believe most of this community believes you are wrong.

Later in that same thread, in response to the question of whether people are rooting for prices to fall, you state: "Rooting for it? I'd root for a full collapse. Cards are for fun and a hobby, not a profit center in my portfolio. The cheaper they are the more cards I can have fun collecting. It's not in my interest for prices to go up as a collector. Rising prices = good for investor or collector/investor, falling prices = good for collector." If anything, it seems to me your posts are intended to pump negativity into the asset class so that prices come down, in your interest as a collector. You may be the biggest (anti) pumper here!

If we can get a consensus on the definition of a pumper, we can determine whether we have any on this site, and thus, determine the veracity or inaccuracy of your constant statements and we can call a real pumper a pumper.

Ryan Hotchkiss

RCFire82 · #11 11-03-2023, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Greg, Ryan, if you make me stop this car and come back there you are both going to be sorry.

Nice Adam! Pretty sure I've picked up a couple t206's from you in the past. I'll look for your table at the Pasadena show 👍

JustinD · #12 11-03-2023, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALBB

then there's the ever popular - Pump and Dump

Admittedly, I have seen many times over the years where a thread was started on a rare issue on the main page, just out of the blue to showcase a particular issue without any stated intent. Then amazingly, some examples of this issue quickly appear in a large auction or eBay within the next week or two.

I don't mind if the intent is clear, but I cannot remember that being the case much. This is not unlike watching Kramer or many stock investment shows who hype their own holdings for a temporary boost.

In addition, it has been clearly disclosed once or twice but mostly hidden of certain individuals bidding up and buying rare issues they hold if they see them selling low to maintain their value in current VCP sales. Then the same card comes back to market later for the recoup in hopes they get the value they believe it should sell for.

Are any of these illegal within the collectables market? Not that I personally know of, but I think it's a tad questionable personally.

BobbyStrawberry · #13 11-03-2023, 10:08 AM

I am happy to say that I think most Net54 members are not pumpers; however, as Ben N. wrote above, I have also noticed things on here that sure seem to me to look like "pumping." Among them are:

1) Making a "show off" post only to have that item appear for sale in the BST shortly thereafter

2) Consistently posting about how one or more cards one owns are only going to go up in value and that anyone who doesn't grab one at an inflated price is "missing out"

raulus · #14 11-03-2023, 10:21 AM

I agree with the snake oil salesman definition. Some Johnny-come-lately (sorry, Johnny) breezes into town with a slick pitch and something of dubious quality to sell for an obscenely high price, then leaves as quickly as he came once his pitch has grown old and the buyers catch on to his schtick.

Ryan - I wouldn't sweat it. Anyone who thinks you are a pumper needs to go home and rethink his life.

At the same time, I find myself often agreeing with Greg when it comes to some of the more ludicrous approaches to aggressively managing finances as a means of buying more cardboard, although I may not be quite so aggressive about saying it. Don't hate me for it!

I suspect that part of the problem may just be the aggressive use of sarcasm and snark. It's my primary medium personally, and Greg uses it liberally. Yet it doesn't always translate well in written form, particularly in an online context. Personally, I'm generally inclined to give Greg the benefit of the doubt and assume noble intentions, while his welcome has probably worn thin with others. I've snapped once or twice myself and typed up a rant on this forum, so it's certainly only natural for all of us to get our dander up over some perceived slight.

I think another part of the problem is that every group, especially those that primarily exist online, develops its own code. And that code leads to a lot of virtue signaling, the need to delineate various degrees of virtue, and labeling those who are insufficiently virtuous so that they can be the objects of appropriate levels of scorn and ridicule by the rest of the group as a means of enforcing that code. The whole investor/collector dynamic comes into play with our group, among other labels. My experience is that whole process at best is quaint, and at worst gets really tiresome in a hurry. Particularly because very few of us have motives that are as pure as the driven snow.

So the bottom line for me is to let it go. It's just not worth getting that excited about.

These aren't the pumpers you're looking for!

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