![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|
#1
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
IMO Cheaters can go in after they die (they don't deserve the honor more than Santo or Minoso, etc.) or after I die (cus I won't care then) whichever comes last. bonds doesn't not deserve to be honored the same way Mr. Aaron was. Again, lower the standards once I'm gone...I definitely won't give a rodents lower GI track about it. replies? blah-blah-blah I've heard ALL the other arguments...do not care. IMO .
__________________
. "A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson “If you have a chance to make life better for others and fail to do so, you are wasting your time on this earth.”- Roberto Clemente Last edited by clydepepper; 11-04-2023 at 04:15 PM. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
I will make the narrow argument that Hank Aaron's accomplishments approach those of Jackie Robinson. I think it is staggering what he did under so much pressure and with so much racial hatred directed toward him. Barry Bonds could have hit 900 home runs; he'll never be Hank Aaron. |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
How do we know what players from the past would have done had PEDs beein available to them? Aaron took greenies, yes? I think the assumption that players in other eras were morally superior is borne of nostalgia bias.
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions. ![]() My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ |
#4
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk
__________________
Barry Larkin, Joey Votto, Tris Speaker, 1930-45 Cincinnati Reds, T206 Cincinnati Successful deals with: Banksfan14, Brianp-beme, Bumpus Jones, Dacubfan (x5), Dstrawberryfan39, Ed_Hutchinson, Fballguy, fusorcruiser (x2), GoCalBears, Gorditadog, Luke, MikeKam, Moosedog, Nineunder71, Powdered H20, PSU, Ronniehatesjazz, Roarfrom34, Sebie43, Seven, and Wondo |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
(A lot of fathers today would probably prefer their daughters marry the nice heart surgeon, as opposed to Derek Jeter or A Rod...
![]() Rightly or wrongly, players are judged by the standards of the time. I'm not a baseball historian, but I suspect that Pete Rose in the 1920s is a first ballot Hall of Famer. Babe Ruth in the 1980s might have ended up like....Pete Rose. I suppose that there are some athletes whose legacies are tarnished at that inflection point when standards change and the "everyone else is doing it argument" suddenly fails in the public eye. Lance Armstrong comes to mind, and maybe that also applies to a guy like Barry Bonds. But I still maintain that Hank Aaron's athletic legacy is far greater than the sum of his statistics. Hank Aaron to me is like Jesse Owens. Carl Lewis may have won more gold medals in the end, but he'll never be Jesse Owens. |
#6
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
Not taking anything at all away from Aaron's greatness, but you are the one who brought Bonds into it. To me Owens and Lewis are both great. What more could anyone have asked Lewis to accomplish? I don't see any need to compare them.
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions. ![]() My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 11-09-2023 at 08:00 PM. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Another poster made the point that Bonds should not be honored in the same way as Hank Aaron.
In response, I argued that Bonds would never be Hank Aaron, even if his stats were clearly better (and, somewhat obviously, if his stats weren't considered tainted because of PEDs). |
#8
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
Whether these things can be considered immoral I'm not sure, but certainly they were attempts to gain advantage while operating outside the rules. If old-time ballplayers had access to pills and needles that could make them better and extend their careers, of course some would've gone that route. |
#9
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions. ![]() My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 11-29-2023 at 02:19 PM. |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
I am not sure the PED/'roids guys deserve to be in the Hall, but to some extent they are a victim of their own success.
PEDs can be traced all the way back to 1889, when Pud Galvin used Brown-Sequard Elixir, which is testosterone derived from other animals, most notably dogs and guinea pigs. Even Babe Ruth tried to inject himself with extract from sheep testicles in 1925. This act only made him ill and forced him to miss some playing time. So cheaters have gotten more sophisticated and better at it over time. Steroids found there way into baseball in the 1970s. Tom House, a former pitcher for a few teams, was the first player to openly acknowledge that there were 6 or 7 players per team experimenting with steroids and human-growth hormone. Steroids then took a backseat during the 1980s when amphetamines became the drug of choice. Players from Mike Schmidt to journeyman Dale Berra, were using amphetamines. MLB practically sanctioned the use of steroids with their lack of any testing/enforcement. In 1990, Congress cracked down on anabolic steroids with the Anabolic Steroids Control Act, which effectively made them an illegal drug. The next year in 1991, MLB Commissioner Fay Vincent made it clear in a memo that it was against the rules to use steroids, but there was no plan for testing/enforcement. If players like McGwire, Sosa and Bonds hadn't completely re-written the record books, few people would care about their "cheating." While Bonds is probably a reprehensible human, I do feel like he probably deserves to be in the Hall more than most of the other guys from the era. He was the best player in baseball before people started modern 'roids, and was a late mover in terms of starting his cheating in the 21st century after being tired of being left behind by the likes of McGwire and Sosa. But because Bonds was better at cheating than others, he seems to get punished more. That and the fact that he won't admit he did it, and is generally not well liked. So cheating has been around forever. They just got really good at during the steroid era. |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
I think Beltre for sure - he has HOF stats. Helton for sure. And if Utley is a strong candidate, then how can Kent not be? Compare their stats. Kent even has an MVP and bigger power numbers. Fewer injuries too.
|
![]() |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Baseball Hall of Fame Rookie Cards Discussion | bcbgcbrcb | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 158 | 10-22-2023 06:21 PM |
Hall of Fame Early Baseball Committee | CardCollector | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 91 | 10-17-2020 01:12 PM |
FS: Early & Rare Football Hall of Fame Autographs SOLD | quinnsryche | Autographs & Game Used B/S/T | 1 | 11-29-2015 06:55 PM |
Looking for early career hall of fame autographs | nicker10 | Autographs & Game Used B/S/T | 2 | 08-05-2015 09:38 AM |
early hall of fame coin i found.. any help on it | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 3 | 03-28-2006 11:42 PM |