Same SGC 7 Mantle Sold 4 times in 15 months

[Rhotchkiss]

I have not accused Brett or Betsy of anything. What I have done is posted a series of Mantle SGC 7 alleged sales of the same card, including what Peter found, 4 of which sales are connected in some fashion to PWCC - either their auctions or their vault. Not REA, not Goldin, not any other house- rather PWCC, an outfit that has been involved (fact and documented) in numerous sketchy activities, got booted from eBay, and recently went belly up (from the top of the world). If the conclusion people are drawing is that PWCC or their old ownership was somehow connected with these “sales”, it’s tough to argue that. I have no direct proof. But where there is smoke….

Regardless, I don’t give a shit about PWCC or anyone there. That place imploded and I haven’t bought from them in years. They are history. Instead, I noticed the same mantle being sold 4 times in 2 years, each time for less, and I pointed that out and asked for theories. My theory is at least 1 of them (now 2) are fake sales intended to create inflated comps. I don’t know if it was PWCC, eBay, Brett/Betsy, other people, or all the above. But I do feel they were fake, nefarious, and PWCC is connected to 4 of the “sales”. At the least, PWCC created a platform that provided opportunity for fake sales.

Edited - I just went back and looked at my earlier posts, and I concede my second post could imply that PWCC directly faked sales. I did not mean that, although I certainly believe they were at least passively connected to the fake sales/at least complicit - I think 2 sales were fake and the both happened on PWCC’s platform. Here is what I think - PWCC extended credit to people, who pledged cards as collateral. PWCC borrowed (either as loan or equity) the funds it lent to others. Like all creditors, I expect PWCC expected to get paid back, but end borrowers likely started defaulting on their loans once the bubble burst. PWCC was owed money from people who lost their asses and owned greatly devalued cards, and PWCC’s immediate collateral was cards, held at PWCC, which likely also had been devalued. The cards were how PWCC would get paid back and, ultimately, how PWCC would pay back its creditor(s). Fake sales on PWCC’s platform almost certainly happened, and I believe the Mantle is an example of that.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I have not accused Brett or Betsy of anything. What I have done is posted a series of Mantle SGC 7 alleged sales of the same card, including what Peter found, 4 of which sales are connected in some fashion to PWCC - either their auctions or their vault. Not REA, not Goldin, not any other house- rather PWCC, an outfit that has been involved (fact and documented) in numerous sketchy activities, got booted from eBay, and recently went belly up (from the top of the world). If the conclusion people are drawing is that PWCC or their old ownership was somehow connected with these “sales”, it’s tough to argue that. I have no direct proof. But where there is smoke….

Regardless, I don’t give a shit about PWCC or anyone there. That place imploded and I haven’t bought from them in years. They are history. Instead, I noticed the same mantle being sold 4 times in 2 years, each time for less, and I pointed that out and asked for theories. My theory is at least 2 of them (now 3) are fake sales intended to create inflated comps. I don’t know if it was PWCC, eBay, Brett/Betsy, other people, or all the above. But I do feel they were fake, nefarious, and PWCC is connected to 4 of the “sales”. At the least, PWCC created a platform that provided opportunity for fake sales.

Let us also not forget they were the target of a federal investigation and initially were cooperating meaning they were going to plead guilty. Let us also not forget they sold Moser's cards for well over a decade. As for me, I was not accusing them specifically with respect to the 900K sale, rather my remark about Betsy was sarcasm about one of Travis' earlier posts.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Thanks for the clarification, Peter. I’m very sorry that I missed out on that knowledge from back in the day. Knowing that would have surely raised my suspicion when the same type of thing started happening in late 2020/early 2021 and I would hope to have been wise enough not to buy into all of the market hype that was going on. Unfortunately, that was not the case and I got burned about as bad as an individual possibly could, given the relatively small stake that I had in the game. Truly, a potential life ruining event for me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Thanks for the clarification, Peter. I’m very sorry that I missed out on that knowledge from back in the day. Knowing that would have surely raised my suspicion when the same type of thing started happening in late 2020/early 2021 and I would hope to have been wise enough not to buy into all of the market hype that was going on. Unfortunately, that was not the case and I got burned about as bad as an individual possibly could, given the relatively small stake that I had in the game.

Similar MO I think, fake sales and FOMO, although in 2020 and 2021 more of a role for the Gary Vees of the world I think.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Edited - I just went back and looked at my earlier posts, and I concede my second post could imply that PWCC directly faked sales. I did not mean that, although I certainly believe they were at least passively connected to the fake sales/at least complicit - I think 2 sales were fake and the both happened on PWCC’s platform. Here is what I think - PWCC extended credit to people, who pledged cards as collateral. PWCC borrowed (either as loan or equity) the funds it lent to others. Like all creditors, I expect PWCC expected to get paid back, but end borrowers likely started defaulting on their loans once the bubble burst. PWCC was owed money from people who lost their asses and owned greatly devalued cards, and PWCC’s immediate collateral was cards, held at PWCC, which likely also had been devalued. The cards were how PWCC would get paid back and, ultimately, how PWCC would pay back its creditor(s). Fake sales on PWCC’s platform almost certainly happened, and I believe the Mantle is an example of that.

I just disproved this theory a few posts back though. This fake $550k sale (which was never paid for, since PWCC does not list in on their own website) is from March 2021, and the plot I showed earlier shows that was the absolute peak of the market. PWCC was not in any financial distress at all during this time. They didn't layoff employees and sell to Fanatics until May 2023.