1921 Herpolsheimers graded w/o mark

[rhettyeakley]

Seriously, this is starting to feel more and more like an episode of “Punk’d” than a serious discussion of whether the cards are real or fake.

Absent an anecdotal testimony Brian heard 2 decades ago he is full of it and he knows it. He doesn’t have to accept the consensus of this board, but to keep on digging in his heels when everything he had questioned has been debunked is asinine. He doesn’t want to be wrong but… YOU, BRIAN, are wrong and are making a poor showing of yourself here by not being able to accept that fact.

I said I was done with the thread earlier and apologize for even chiming back in but these E121-like cards are kinda special to me and I have dedicated more time to studying them than perhaps anyone else in the world. The idea that someone could conjure up fakes that would fool me or any of the others testifying to their legitimacy is actually rather insulting.


Imagine this scenario…a fake set is made in the 1970’s that was previously unknown to exist…then coincidentally the company that the person decided to fake as the maker of the fraud set DID in fact have an actual promotion distributing baseball cards in the same style, format and year as the “fake” cards(which was unknown to the fraudster) and then several advertisements are found to confirm the promotion (which would have been unknown to the fraudster)… THiS IS INSANELY COINCIDENTAL!!!

Or…The cards are real and Brian is full of Shit!

[G1911]

You can only win with facts and evidence and reason with a person who also accepts those as the grounds of battle and the rules of engagement. You can’t reason with an idiot who rejects them in favor of an appeal to authority to an anonymous dealer’s claim they may even be making up too.

Nobody should change their mind because of the credentials of people who say otherwise or because of peer pressure; they should because their claim is absurdist and illogical and all of the evidence is against it and points to the exact opposite.

This is the stupidest thread in a long time. I love it.

[Brian Van Horn]

Michael,

Thank you for the response.

[Brian Van Horn]

Now, now, now Rhett.

I am still waiting for response to my post to your #218 yesterday. Here is what you stated:

"The weird part about your theory of fake cards Brian is...

the subjects included in the "fake" Herpolsheimer cards line up perfectly with the D350 Standard Biscuit and Holsum Bread (Type 2) set perfectly as VERY early 1921 sets and pre-date the earliest version of the E121 Series 80 set because by the time the E121-80 set was printed many of the "dropped" cards had been eliminated from the lineup.

WHAT MAKES THIS INTERESTING?

This knowledge is only known by me and a handful of other people in the entire world and was known by nobody in the 1970's.

And, when I say they line up perfectly...I mean there are 0 outliers! There is not a single mistake made in the Herpolsheimer's checklist and includes copies of cards that were not known to exist in the "E121 family of sets" in the 1970's...like the Davenport card (which is only included in the sets listed above and 1-2 copies in the world as a W575-1)

With all due respect you are being ridiculous about this subject and you seem to really have a hard time with admitting when you are wrong.

I am done with this conversation at this point and would advise everyone to stop "feeding the troll" as Brian is obviously not looking at anything here objectively and is (I can only imagine at this point) is somehow getting pleasure from his troll behavior."

No errors, but no answer so far to Peckinpaugh/Peckinbaugh in existence in the Herpolsheimer knock off in my response and that is just one example.

Also, here is another one.

Post #240 today which states

Wow, this is an all-time thread. Like others I enjoy printmaking so, FWIW, with a fairly quick search I was able to find both borders available in the 1930s and 40s, so the border in question was definitely available before the 1970s.

https://archive.org/details/LanstonM...e/n23/mode/2up

Go to the link and below the images?

A typographical specimen booklet containing borders and ornaments for casting on the Lanston Monotype Composition Caster, Lanston Monotype Type-Caster, Lanston Monotype Giant Caster and Monotype-Thompson Type-Caster. This booklet is from a Lanston Monotype specimen book (binder) bearing the general title "Monotype Type Faces." It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s.


Oh, we're just off by the early 1920's (not) to the late 1930's or 1940's. Still, let's go with the lesser number of years and be off by under twenty years. Yeah, that's the ticket. Refund! LOL!

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by G1911

You can only win with facts and evidence and reason with a person who also accepts those as the grounds of battle and the rules of engagement. You can’t reason with an idiot who rejects them in favor of an appeal to authority to an anonymous dealer’s claim they may even be making up too.

Nobody should change their mind because of the credentials of people who say otherwise or because of peer pressure; they should because their claim is absurdist and illogical and all of the evidence is against it and points to the exact opposite.

This is the stupidest thread in a long time. I love it.

Greg,

Well, we have something in common.

[Brian Van Horn]

By the way gentlemen,

I have to give credit where it is deserved. From last Wednesday morning until today I have had a cold. It caused me to back out of not one or two, but three Thanksgiving dinners. I thank you seriously for your responses in this thread for making me recover.

Sincerely,

Brian Van Horn

P.S.

Keep the responses coming. The "1921" Herpolsheimer cards are fakes.

[rhettyeakley]

In the Holsum Bread set the Peckinpaugh card in Type 1 (1920) has him correctly identified as “PeckinPaugh” while the Type 2 (1921) has his name mistakenly listed as “ PeckinBaugh”

The incorrect spelling was continued into the next round of production (which included the E121 Series of 80 cards (Type 1) cards

The last round of production of the cards with their various backs included E121-80 Type 2 & 3 backs, Gasslers’s and Koester’s Bread has the company RE-correcting the card to “PeckinPaugh”

What exactly do you think you are proving with that?

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

In the Holsum Bread set the Peckinpaugh card in Type 1 (1920) has him correctly identified as “PeckinPaugh” while the Type 2 (1921) has his name mistakenly listed as “ PeckinBaugh”

The mistaken spelled was continued into the next round of production (which included the E121 Series of 80 cards (Type 1) cards

The last round of production of the cards with their various backs included E121-80 Type 2 & 3 backs, Gasslers’s and Koester’s Bread has the comoany RE-correcting the card to “PeckinPaugh”

What exactly do you think you are proving with that?

Rhett,

Please review your previous post, not your response you just made. You stated:

"And, when I say they line up perfectly...I mean there are 0 outliers! There is not a single mistake made in the Herpolsheimer's checklist and includes copies of cards that were not known to exist in the "E121 family of sets" in the 1970's...like the Davenport card (which is only included in the sets listed above and 1-2 copies in the world as a W575-1)"

Well mistake could be interpreted as a mistake in the name or in the nameplate of a player, thus the question involving Peckinpaugh/Peckinbaugh.

Now, as for the link:

https://archive.org/details/LanstonM...e/n23/mode/2up

Just under 20 to 20 years off. Uh, hmmm.

Go to the link and below the images?

A typographical specimen booklet containing borders and ornaments for casting on the Lanston Monotype Composition Caster, Lanston Monotype Type-Caster, Lanston Monotype Giant Caster and Monotype-Thompson Type-Caster. This booklet is from a Lanston Monotype specimen book (binder) bearing the general title "Monotype Type Faces." It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s.

[rhettyeakley]

It lines up with the timeline of Peckinpaugh cards perfectly.

Something that would not be done by a fraudster with no knowledge of the sets.

[JollyElm]

424. Scorched Mirth
A welcome and unexpected post in the middle of a very contentious thread which suddenly provides comic relief and brings smiles to people’s faces.

See also: Laftereffects - when other people follow suit and keep the light-hearted vibe going to ease the tension.



Since every thread is more enjoyable with 'Collectorisms,' I will shamelessly (Herpolshamelessly??) ride my pun horse out of the barn and quickly (way too quickly...definitely shoulda spent some more time on inventing this garbage) try a little 'Scorched Mirth' in this one (obviously not taking sides in the matter, just reporting what I see)...

Herpolshaman
Someone who stands up, sticks to his guns and preaches his truth to collectors that the 1921 Herpolsheimer’s cards are fakes.

Herpolshammer
Someone who knowingly pushes the false narrative that 1921 Herpolsheimer’s cards are fakes.

Herpol Rain
The torrents of on-line abuse pouring down on anyone daring to suggest the 1921 Herpolsheimer’s cards are fakes.

Herpolshamers
Members who angrily go after anyone making the claim that the 1921 Herpolsheimer’s cards are fakes.

Herpolshimsham
The act of tap dancing around all of the abuse flying your way in a thread about 1921 Herpolsheimer’s cards.

Addrest Assured
The belief that the lack of an address on back either proves 100% that the 1921 Herpolsheimer’s cards are fakes OR proves 100% that they are real.

Cher Cropper
Anyone who is able to somehow slyly sneak Cherilyn Sarkisian’s moniker into the middle of a baseball card debate thread.

Border Blather
The back and forth from each side of the debate arguing over whether or not the advertisement border and ornament design is the proof that wins the case for their side.

‘16 Scandals (slang)
Relying on the known facts about the Herpolsheimer’s cards issued five years earlier to prove that any claims purporting the 1921 cards to be fake are a wanton deception.

Boysfashionistas
General fans of the Herpolsheimer’s cards.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

424. Scorched Mirth
A welcome and unexpected post in the middle of a very contentious thread which suddenly provides comic relief and brings smiles to people’s faces.

See also: Laftereffects - when other people follow suit and keep the light-hearted vibe going to ease the tension.



Since every thread is more enjoyable with 'Collectorisms,' I will shamelessly (Herpolshamelessly??) ride my pun horse out of the barn and quickly (way too quickly...definitely shoulda spent some more time on inventing this garbage) try a little 'Scorched Mirth' in this one (obviously not taking sides in the matter, just reporting what I see)...

Herpolshaman
Someone who stands up, sticks to his guns and preaches his truth to collectors that the 1921 Herpolsheimer’s cards are fakes.

Herpolshammer
Someone who knowingly pushes the false narrative that 1921 Herpolsheimer’s cards are fakes.

Herpol Rain
The torrents of on-line abuse pouring down on anyone daring to suggest the 1921 Herpolsheimer’s cards are fakes.

Herpolshamers
Members who angrily go after anyone making the claim that the 1921 Herpolsheimer’s cards are fakes.

Herpolshimsham
The act of tap dancing around all of the abuse flying your way in a thread about 1921 Herpolsheimer’s cards.

Addrest Assured
The belief that the lack of an address on back either proves 100% that the 1921 Herpolsheimer’s cards are fakes OR proves 100% that they are real.

Cher Cropper
Anyone who is able to somehow slyly sneak Cherilyn Sarkisian’s moniker into the middle of a baseball card debate thread.

Border Blather
The back and forth from each side of the debate arguing over whether or not the advertisement border and ornament design is the proof that wins the case for their side.

‘16 Scandals (slang)
Relying on the known facts about the Herpolsheimer’s cards issued five years earlier to prove that any claims purporting the 1921 cards to be fake are a wanton deception.

Boysfashionistas
General fans of the Herpolsheimer’s cards.

Thank you. Also, during this post this evening I have been listening to the song "The Eggplant that Ate Chicago" which is by Norman Greenbaum and puts him one beyond the one hit wonder number. Remember "Spirit in the Sky". No, I did not hear this song ever on Dr. Demento:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfZ1ZHDAq08

[Rhotchkiss]

The brilliant irony of this terribly annoying thread that won’t die (and I just bumped it) is that the Herpolsheimers (and many LOTG lots) probably went for more because of Brian’s (incorrect) claims, which lead to a runaway thread of publicity and produced what, I think, is previously unknown and lock-solid proof of authenticity. Classic