1921 Herpolsheimers graded w/o mark

calvindog · #1 11-28-2023, 10:09 AM

Brian,

Why would you destroy your reputation in the hobby over something as dumb as this? It�s painful to watch. Please stop.

Brian Van Horn · #2 11-28-2023, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

Brian,

Why would you destroy your reputation in the hobby over something as dumb as this? It�s painful to watch. Please stop.

Jeffrey,

I apologize, but if ruining my rep saves people from getting ripped off so be the matter. Just a reminder to you about your accusations about Bill Mastro, the criticism you received by the masses on this board and the fact you were correct.

calvindog · #3 11-28-2023, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Jeffrey,

I apologize, but if ruining my rep saves people from getting ripped off so be the matter. Just a reminder to you about your accusations about Bill Mastro, the criticism you received by the masses on this board and the fact you were correct.

Except I had clear anecdotal evidence which was immediately corroborated by the FBI who contacted me. In your case you have laughably weak, decades-old hearsay �evidence� from an unknown source � which has convinced no one. To suggest these two sets of circumstances are even remotely similar suggests to me that you�re having some kind of break from reality. And at this point you are not concerned about saving anyone from fraud, as I was as I had no prior axe to grind with Mastro. You�re just being George Constanta driving Susan�s parents out to his fake Montauk house. You always struck me as a decent and honest guy. This thread clearly is eroding that perception. Your choice I guess.

Brian Van Horn · #4 11-28-2023, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

Except I had clear anecdotal evidence which was immediately corroborated by the FBI who contacted me. In your case you have laughably weak, decades-old hearsay �evidence� from an unknown source � which has convinced no one. To suggest these two sets of circumstances are even remotely similar suggests to me that you�re having some kind of break from reality. And at this point you are not concerned about saving anyone from fraud, as I was as I had no prior axe to grind with Mastro. You�re just being George Constanta driving Susan�s parents out to his fake Montauk house. You always struck me as a decent and honest guy. This thread clearly is eroding that perception. Your choice I guess.

Hiccup.

The cards are fake. My apologies about your Cobb.

Happy Holidays

calvindog · #5 11-28-2023, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Hiccup.

The cards are fake. My apologies about your Cobb.

Happy Holidays

No need to offer up any apologies � I can sell it in 5 minutes for at least 50K. If anyone believed you, it would be worthless, much like your reputation now.

Brian Van Horn · #6 11-28-2023, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

No need to offer up any apologies � I can sell it in 5 minutes for at least 50K. If anyone believed you, it would be worthless, much like your reputation now.

Wow! November 28, 2023 at 12:52 p.m. I have a ringing job endorsement by Jeffrey. Oh, that's right. I've found a way to not to have to work a job since November 1, 2013 and I am on no government aid or disability.

Sorry, Jeffrey, but I'll have to pleasantly turn down your ringing endorsement. That would have really stood out.

No offense.

Happy Holidays!

Brian Van Horn · #7 11-28-2023, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

No need to offer up any apologies — I can sell it in 5 minutes for at least 50K. If anyone believed you, it would be worthless, much like your reputation now.

I'm not saying you don't have one so don't interpret this in a negative way. I have a clear conscience to go with the experience. I'll take the conscience over the reputation. Now, this is coming from an Agnostic, but there was somebody in some book who had the same approach. Oh, my. Imagine an Agnostic with a conscience. No, I'm not Catholic so the holy water and exorcisms won't clear me of a clear and clean conscience.

darwinbulldog · #8 11-28-2023, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

Brian,

Why would you destroy your reputation in the hobby over something as dumb as this? It�s painful to watch. Please stop.

In all sincerity, and as someone who has had positive dealings with Brian in the past, this is where I am now as well. Just as a matter of epistemic humility, I would hope that anyone could acknowledge that any particular one of their beliefs has some non-zero probability of being incorrect, regardless of whether there is mounting evidence on the other side of the scale. As trivial a matter as baseball cards are in the grand scheme of things, this has been genuinely upsetting to behold.

raulus · #9 11-28-2023, 01:32 PM

Can�t speak for the rest of the group, but the posts from this morning have helped to eliminate a lot of my confusion.

Brian Van Horn · #10 11-28-2023, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

In all sincerity, and as someone who has had positive dealings with Brian in the past, this is where I am now as well. Just as a matter of epistemic humility, I would hope that anyone could acknowledge that any particular one of their beliefs has some non-zero probability of being incorrect, regardless of whether there is mounting evidence on the other side of the scale. As trivial a matter as baseball cards are in the grand scheme of things, this has been genuinely upsetting to behold.

Glenn,

First, Happy Holidays. I am sorry you feel that way, but from what i have experienced with the cards, although brief, they are fake, and I stand by that assertion.

Brian Van Horn · #11 11-28-2023, 01:36 PM

Folks,

Feel free to pull this up in 2004 in addition to now. Nothing in my opinion or accounting of matters has changed. 19 years. No changes. Just additional fraudulent cards.

darwinbulldog · #12 11-28-2023, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Glenn,

First, Happy Holidays. I am sorry you feel that way, but from what i have experienced with the cards, although brief, they are fake, and I stand by that assertion.

I appreciate that. Happy holidays to you as well.

rhettyeakley · #13 11-28-2023, 04:24 PM

This �debate� has become hilarious in its absurdity.

The only part I feel bad for is the next person that finds some REAL 1921 Herpolsheimer cards. They will potentially have to wade through this mess of a thread and read Brian�s comments that are not based on any actual evidence.

It is just bad for card scholarship to have this amount of misinformation and confirmation bias (by Brian) out there.

I echo Jeff�s thoughts on this being a painful thing to watch.

Brian Van Horn · #14 11-28-2023, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

This �debate� has become hilarious in its absurdity.

The only part I feel bad for is the next person that finds some REAL 1921 Herpolsheimer cards. They will potentially have to wade through this mess of a thread and read Brian�s comments that are not based on any actual evidence.

It is just bad for card scholarship to have this amount of misinformation and confirmation bias (by Brian) out there.

I echo Jeff�s thoughts on this being a painful thing to watch.

Rhett,

Still referring you back to post 240 which you haven't answered.

https://archive.org/details/LanstonM...e/n23/mode/2up

A typographical specimen booklet containing borders and ornaments for casting on the Lanston Monotype Composition Caster, Lanston Monotype Type-Caster, Lanston Monotype Giant Caster and Monotype-Thompson Type-Caster. This booklet is from a Lanston Monotype specimen book (binder) bearing the general title "Monotype Type Faces." It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s.

So, buying Herpolsheimer cards supposedly from 1921 with backs from the late 1930s or early 1940s is a good investment?

molenick · #15 11-28-2023, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Rhett,

Still referring you back to post 240 which you haven't answered.

https://archive.org/details/LanstonM...e/n23/mode/2up

A typographical specimen booklet containing borders and ornaments for casting on the Lanston Monotype Composition Caster, Lanston Monotype Type-Caster, Lanston Monotype Giant Caster and Monotype-Thompson Type-Caster. This booklet is from a Lanston Monotype specimen book (binder) bearing the general title "Monotype Type Faces." It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s.

So, buying Herpolsheimer cards supposedly from 1921 with backs from the late 1930s or early 1940s is a good investment?

The backs are not from 1930's-1940's. The binder is from 1930's-1940's. There is no way to know how old the back designs are just using the binder as evidence.

The binder also has a border that we all agree was used on legitimate 1921 Holsum Bread cards.

So if a border from this binder was used on 1921 Holsum Bread cards, why is it impossible that a border from the same binder was used on legitimate 1921 Herpolsheimer's cards?

No one is saying that this proves the Herpolsheimer's are real. But the binder also does not prove they are fake. It just proves that the border existed before the 1970's.

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