Consignment/Auction House Question

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Snowman

This hobby has a serious problem with the rake paid for transactions. I'm blown away that someone hasn't come along and created a seriously competitive platform yet to put all these guys out of business. PWCC had a chance, but they sorta blew it by wasting their money and charging way more than they needed to.

Go for it. People think auctions are just licenses to print money. They're wrong.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Go for it. People think auctions are just licenses to print money. They're wrong.

It does seem like plenty of other auction houses in potentially bigger markets charge just as much, and sometimes more. So it's hard to imagine that it can realistically be done for a lot less. That's part of the fun with capitalism - if you're overcharging, then you leave yourself open to competitors who will come in and take market share by charging less, and ultimately drive you out of business.

I suspect that operating an AH is harder than it looks. I also suspect that at lower fee levels, the margins to the AH start to look too skinny. And any market share you might pick up by charging less ends up not being worth it.

Of course, the counterpoint to that argument is the video of one of the industry's more outspoken auction operators bragging about the number of zeros in his bank account, and the location of his house on a golf course.

[Snapolit1]

If the guy living on the golf course made a mint in the last few years selling Zion refractors, Wander Franco rookie superfractors, and Trevor Lawrence relic cards, I suspect his business model ain't what it used to be.

Originally Posted by raulus

It does seem like plenty of other auction houses in potentially bigger markets charge just as much, and sometimes more. So it's hard to imagine that it can realistically be done for a lot less. That's part of the fun with capitalism - if you're overcharging, then you leave yourself open to competitors who will come in and take market share by charging less, and ultimately drive you out of business.

I suspect that operating an AH is harder than it looks. I also suspect that at lower fee levels, the margins to the AH start to look too skinny. And any market share you might pick up by charging less ends up not being worth it.

Of course, the counterpoint to that argument is the video of one of the industry's more outspoken auction operators bragging about the number of zeros in his bank account, and the location of his house on a golf course.

[sealmark41]

It's only my two cents worth but I have been dealing with Brockelman Auctions for years and have been very pleased with every aspect of our dealings from start to finish. Good material, fine communications as needed and very pleased with the results. Strange they have not been mentioned in this thread.
Sealmark

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Go for it. People think auctions are just licenses to print money. They're wrong.

I'm not trying to belittle the amount of work you have to put in to sell cards for consigners. I've scanned, sold, packed, and shipped many thousands of cards myself. It's work. And a lot of cards is a lot of work. Building an auction house is a grind. Getting people to consign takes work, getting traffic to your site, taking scans, creating the listings, packing, shipping, dealing with annoying customers, I get it. Trust me.

For most of the smaller auction houses, you guys are earning every bit of what you bring in. People sending you boxes full of random commons and $10-20 cards is a grind. Even cards below $100 are hardly worth your time.

What I'm talking about primarily are the large auction houses that won't even accept any cards below $1,000 from anyone, and then want 20-30% of what they sell for. Goldin hiking up their fee to 22% is just a giant middle finger to the hobby. Taking cards that are worth 6 figures from consigners and keeping 15% of the price. That's the type of BS that we shouldn't put up with.

eBay caps their selling fees at ~$300 per item, regardless of what it sells for (plus a ~2% payment processing fee after that). Probstein charges just 5% for anything above $1k.

[sb1]

I am not sure you are aware of the bidders in the deep end of the pool, they don't frequent Ebay or PWCC or Probstein. Nor do they pay sellers commissions.

[Yoda]

I believe when it is really tough times in the hobby, Goldin and others like him will suffer. Economics will rule.

[hcv123]

Advantages of private consignment:

1) Significantly lower commissions 7.5%-10% all in (for items valued over $1K)

2) Price control - If I can't sell it for a price we agree to, it doesn't sell "to the highest bidder". I bring any bona fide offer to you for your consideration and ultimate ability to say yes or no.


I have plenty of references from previous "happy consignors".

My email is hcv123@att.net
My phone# is 516-991-5535

I invite you to reach out to discuss further details.

[anchorednw]

Funny enough, I had planned to send in something smaller to REA soon, but was dragging my feet as I was wrestling with selling a larger quantity and quite sure REA wasn't going to be the place.

The Sales Rep that I had worked with on a sale previously reached out and wanted to know why I hadn't sent anything in yet. I told him my concerns and that I was shopping around. He then proceeded to tell me REA was the way to go and what my concerns. were.

I told him about how my most recent consignment was buried amongst a sea of identical items with no warning. Plus, my agreed upon hammer price with one of their direct and closer competition.

He politely, in so many words, told me to have a nice *#%@ day!

I will NEVER consign material with REA ever again due to the obvious above-mentioned concerns and his lack of f***s given.

[etsmith]

You also have to consider that the largest auction houses may be in collusion with each other, we've seen it before.

Edw@rd Sm.ith

[raulus]

Originally Posted by etsmith

You also have to consider that the largest auction houses may be in collusion with each other, we've seen it before.

I guess that’s a possibility! At the same time, they seem to compete pretty fiercely against each other, so I have a hard time imagining them really colluding together.

But if collusion were occurring, it would also seem like a great opportunity for a smaller upstart to take market share. Or a new entrant to do it.

Of course, there are some decent barriers to entry that limit the ability of a new competitor to just start a new auction house and have it take off. The new operator would have to really want it, and would need to have a good chunk of change to finance the ramp up.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by anchorednw

Funny enough, I had planned to send in something smaller to REA soon, but was dragging my feet as I was wrestling with selling a larger quantity and quite sure REA wasn't going to be the place.

The Sales Rep that I had worked with on a sale previously reached out and wanted to know why I hadn't sent anything in yet. I told him my concerns and that I was shopping around. He then proceeded to tell me REA was the way to go and what my concerns. were.

I told him about how my most recent consignment was buried amongst a sea of identical items with no warning. Plus, my agreed upon hammer price with one of their direct and closer competition.

He politely, in so many words, told me to have a nice *#%@ day!

I will NEVER consign material with REA ever again due to the obvious above-mentioned concerns and his lack of f***s given.

You will see more and more of this in 2024. Many of the same card being sold in auction. T206 Cobbs come to mind.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by sb1

I am not sure you are aware of the bidders in the deep end of the pool, they don't frequent Ebay or PWCC or Probstein. Nor do they pay sellers commissions.

They will go to wherever the cards are listed. Countless high end deals are done in-person from BST listings here and from eBay postings that are worked out offline and at card shows. The only reason the high-end auction houses have a stranglehold on those cards is because we let them. But it doesn't have to be that way.

[icurnmedic]

Originally Posted by Snowman

They will go to wherever the cards are listed. Countless high end deals are done in-person from BST listings here and from eBay postings that are worked out offline and at card shows. The only reason the high-end auction houses have a stranglehold on those cards is because we let them. But it doesn't have to be that way.

Personally on the mid tier items( $500-$10000) I find that I do better buying at auction houses than I do at eBay.
And I agree, there are many high end items that sell for good money on eBay , when the "juice and or seller fees " are factored in.

That being said, not sure I would risk a $100k card to eBay. Just not sure.

[Snapolit1]

I would not list a high end card on eBay and would be very hesitant to buy one there too. I’ve had too many shenanigans on eBay selling $50 cards. Too much anonymity.

Had an AH reach out to me a few years ago and tell me that the item I bought nearly a year earlier was a fake and how would I like to be reimbursed. Chances of that happening on eBay is exactly zero.

[oldjudge]

Everyone has their own views on this; here are mine.

1. If you have a unique, important item consign it to the auction house that will have the most people see it. That means one of the big ones with a fancy catalog and a huge mailing list.
2. If you have good items but ones that will already be plentiful in the big auction catalogs consign it to a still solid but smaller auction house. Why add another mid-grade Aaron rookie to a catalog that will probably already have ten?
3. Consign lower value items to smaller auction houses, perhaps even those without catalogs. They will have smaller bidding pools but be realistic--small items are not worth the big boys time and you will not get the best service for these.The owners of these small auctions consign their own cards to the big auctions which should tell you all you need to know.
4. For good or great items not only should you not be paying a seller's premium, you should be getting back a portion if the buyer's premium. How much? That depends on what you have and the deal you can negotiate.
5. Read the contracts the auction houses send and if there are clauses you find troublesome try to get them eliminated. Those contracts are starting points, those words are not carved in stone.
6. Find an auction house whose staff you like and trust. Ask yourself, if my consignment is lost or damaged do I think the auction house will compensate me fairly. This last item pares the list down quite a bit for me.