Thurman Munson Hall of Fame? And other careers cut short.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by G1911

Munson was a league average bat his final two years, his age 31 and 32 seasons. He was done as a significant player already; if anything his early death is the only reason he's given as a candidate - if he had played out his decline he would not be in the discussion as he wouldn't even have the rate stats (which are not particularly strong) to point to.

I think there's a reason Yankees fans bring this up a lot but he still isn't in. He wouldn't be the worst choice, it's not entirely unreasonable, but he's short of the general line of achievement that has gotten catchers in.

I think Munson would certainly be a better choice for the Hall of Fame than a recent selection like Harold Baines. I wish I could've seen Munson play, as he's a little before my time.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Seven

I think Munson would certainly be a better choice for the Hall of Fame than a recent selection like Harold Baines. I wish I could've seen Munson play, as he's a little before my time.

I think we could probably identify 75 or so HOF qualifying players who were more meritous than Baines. That one was absurdly corrupt. It's like we've returned to the Frisch era the last few years with the inconsistent choices that are clearly not reflective of actual merit or lack thereof.

[jingram058]

Munson should be in the HoF. He was the best catcher in baseball. It wasn't his fault he freaking died.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Munson should be in the HoF. He was the best catcher in baseball. It wasn't his fault he freaking died.

Johnny Bench was the best catcher in baseball at that time. Not even close.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Johnny Bench was the best catcher in baseball at that time. Not even close.

Yes it was close, Peter. Munson was the American League version.

[G1911]

I don’t see any reasonable case that Munson was either as good as Bench, or as bad as a replacement level player. At some point math and reality have to interfere with narrative. Must we always take the greatest of extremes?

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by G1911

I don’t see any reasonable case that Munson was either as good as Bench, or as bad as a replacement level player. At some point math and reality have to interfere with narrative. Must we always take the greatest of extremes?

Munson had a career .357 batting average in the postseason with three home runs, 22 RBIs and 19 runs scored. His batting average in the World Series was .373. Munson threw out 44.48% of base runners who tried stealing a base on him, ranking him 11th on the all-time list.[46]

1st all time – Singles in World Series, 9
10th all time – Batting average by catcher, .292
11th all time – Postseason batting average, .357
11th all time – Caught stealing percentage
16th all time – On base percentage by catcher
20th all time – OPS by catcher
24th all time – Slugging by catcher
26th all time – Hits by catcher
26th all time – Runs by catcher
AL Rookie of the Year (1970)
AL MVP (1976)
3× Gold Glove Award
3 AL Pennants
2 World Series titles
7× All Star

Yes his career was cut short. That's the only thing keeping him out of the HoF. All the other arguments or opinions are BS. No more discussion on this by me. There's nothing to discuss.

[Kutcher55]

Statistically he is probably a below average candidate, but he has the intangibles having been one of the key players on some historically important and memorable Yankee teams in the 70s. Some might say he was the backbone/spiritual leader of those Yankee teams. For those reasons, I don't think he'd be a terrible candidate.

In a way he reminds me of Steve Garvey. Same era, was a huge star in the game for many years, a marquee name and a clutch player on memorable teams. His WAR puts him well short, but probably more deserving than many including Harold Baines, or Lee Smith.

Fred Lynn is another one. Probably a near miss, but he was one of the best players in baseball for the better part of a decade. Injuries keep him out.

[packs]

Munson was just not an all time great player. Sorry, guys. I'm a huge Yankees fan but he's all mystique and no production. I would even say he's lucky to have an MVP on his resume, as George Brett was clearly the superior player in 1976 (Brett OPS+ was 144 with 7.5 WAR compared to 126 and 5.3 WAR for Munson).

Even in his prime he spent several seasons hovering around replacement level with OPS+ of 105, 101 and 101.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by packs

Munson was just not an all time great player. Sorry, guys. I'm a huge Yankees fan but he's all mystique and no production. I would even say he's lucky to have an MVP on his resume, as George Brett was clearly the superior player in 1976 (Brett OPS+ was 144 with 7.5 WAR compared to 126 and 5.3 WAR for Munson).

Even in his prime he spent several seasons hovering around replacement level with OPS+ of 105, 101 and 101.

Sorry packs, you're wrong. He was the best catcher in all of baseball.

[mckinneyj]

Originally Posted by jingram058

He was the best catcher in all of baseball.

Munson was a tremendous competitor, but, Bench, Fisk and Simmons might take issue with that "best" declaration.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by mckinneyj

Munson was a tremendous competitor, but, Bench, Fisk and Simmons might take issue with that "best" declaration.

They might. But Munson was as good or better than any of them. The three best catchers I ever saw were Berra, Bench and Munson.

[howard38]

Originally Posted by packs

Munson was just not an all time great player. Sorry, guys. I'm a huge Yankees fan but he's all mystique and no production. I would even say he's lucky to have an MVP on his resume, as George Brett was clearly the superior player in 1976 (Brett OPS+ was 144 with 7.5 WAR compared to 126 and 5.3 WAR for Munson).

Even in his prime he spent several seasons hovering around replacement level with OPS+ of 105, 101 and 101.

A 100 OPS+ isn't replacement level it's league average and for a catcher it's above average. But yeah, I would have voted for Brett over Munson. Maybe Nettles as well.