2025 HOF -- Early Thoughts

[gunboat82]

I could see Hernandez (and Santana) getting in on Contemporary Committee votes if they look at advanced stats.

Each had a higher WAR total than Koufax, Lemon, Bender, Bill Foster, Wilhelm, Dean, Pennock, Joss, Chesbro, Goose Gossage, Jack Morris. We can look skeptically at imperfect stats like WAR. But if the point is to measure sustained greatness relative to contemporary peers, some of these pitchers don't have anything on Hernandez or Santana.

[Mike D.]

CC Sabathia will be interesting to see. I'm hearing a lot of people talking about him as a potential 1st ballot inductee.

Yet Andy Pettitte, who's pretty close to Sabathia in terms of career numbers, is lingering in the teens in terms of vote percentage.

I actually think they both belong, but will CC get 75% plus while Pettitte doesn't break 20%? There is the PED thing with Pettitte, but again...that's a big gap.

[packs]

Pettitte will be one of the few pitchers with 100 wins over losses that isn't in the HOF and I think only Clemens joins him in that club.

He would be one of the lowest tiered HOFers in but absent his PED scandal, Pettitte was a beast. Definitely one of those "you had to see him play" guys but nobody in New York ever worried about the game if Andy was pitching.

The guy pitched for 18 years and never had a sub 500 record in a season.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

Pettitte will be one of the few pitchers with 100 wins over losses that isn't in the HOF and I think only Clemens joins him in that club.

He would be one of the lowest tiered HOFers in but absent his PED scandal, Pettitte was a beast. Definitely one of those "you had to see him play" guys but nobody in New York ever worried about the game if Andy was pitching.

The guy pitched for 18 years and never had a sub 500 record in a season.

Bob Caruthers comes to mind as qualifying, 218 and 99 record. Can't think of another one.

[packs]

Yeah I wasn't sure whether to count Caruthers or not since he's technically not eligible for the HOF. Or maybe he is? I see he's credited with 9 seasons as a pitcher but has a 10th counted as a batter.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

Yeah I wasn't sure whether to count Caruthers or not since he's technically not eligible for the HOF. Or maybe he is? I see he's credited with 9 seasons as a pitcher but has a 10th counted as a batter.

He appeared in a game in 10 seasons, meeting the qualification for the Hall.

Originally Posted by packs

Pettitte will be one of the few pitchers with 100 wins over losses that isn't in the HOF and I think only Clemens joins him in that club.

And even if he did not, he still qualifies by the statement given.

[jingram058]

Ichiro is, as they say, In Like Flint. Household name in a constant come and go era. If Sadaharu Oh is the Japanese Babe Ruth, Ichiro is Ty Cobb. It's supposed to be a Hall of greatness, not the Hall of very good. Ichiro is a once in a generation truly great ballplayer.

All the rest, we'll see.

[bk400]

Totally agree on Ichiro. I'd argue that he better than Ty Cobb when you factor the level of competition (Noting that it is unfair to compare across eras.)

I'd like to see Pettitte and Clemens in the HOF. I'm not convinced that steroids helps pitchers as much as hitters.

[Seven]

[QUOTE=bk400;2407818]

I'd like to see Pettitte and Clemens in the HOF. I'm not convinced that steroids helps pitchers as much as hitters.[/QUOTE]

PED's shorten recovery time, enhance reaction time and make muscles stronger and more durable. I'd make the argument that chances are the PED users that took them already possessed Hall of Fame talent, PED's just enhanced it.

Especially in cases of guys like Clemens, and Bonds. Steroids gave their careers a new life. Clemens was on a downswing before them. Bonds was putting up MVP caliber numbers still. In the case of Clemens it allowed him to turn back the clock and regain what he lost from his youth. In the case of Bonds, it showed us how an inner-circle Hall of Fame talent, could become a literal god amongst men.