Every slabbed card has a story, don't it?

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I disagree regarding the devaluation of said cards. The market has clearly shown that it doesn't give two clucks about what cert numbers have been outed by BODA or which cards make it onto that completely unusable Tiffany Cards database. As long as the cert is still valid, the cards can be bought and sold pretty much anywhere at full market pricing. People who say otherwise are not looking at the data, but rather are projecting based on that which they wish to be true. Rightly or wrongly, it is what it is.

I think the market is just ignorant of the issue. Most collectors don't know who BODA is or what is in the Tiffany database. Doesn't mean they don't care. They just assume PSA is watching over everything.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Doesn't mean they don't care.

I think at best the ignorance equates to not caring by now, in 2024. The hobby news about slabgate and trimming and fraud is hardly new. Before the Gary Moser's of the world were Mastro and his ilk.

Many attribute the lack of concern to high roller registry set investor types having been in bed with PSA too long at this point. Hard to disagree with that as a motive.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I think at best the ignorance equates to not caring by now, in 2024. The hobby news about slabgate and trimming and fraud is hardly new. Before the Gary Moser's of the world were Mastro and his ilk.

Many attribute the lack of concern to high roller registry set investor types having been in bed with PSA too long at this point. Hard to disagree with that as a motive.

I didn't know who Gary Moser was until I joined Net54. You don't need to be current on hobby news to buy a card on ebay. I think you may be overestimating the overall knowledge of card collectors.

P.S. I wouldn't call registry set buyers "investors". They are mostly in it for the competition and the bravado. From a money standpoint, you would be better off selling to registry builders than becoming one yourself.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

I didn't know who Gary Moser was until I joined Net54. You don't need to be current on hobby news to buy a card on ebay. I think you may be overestimating the overall knowledge of card collectors.

P.S. I wouldn't call registry set buyers "investors". They are mostly in it for the competition and the bravado. From a money standpoint, you would be better off selling to registry builders than becoming one yourself.

While it's true that some of the hobby rank and file can be in the dark on some of those things, enough waves were made among those in the know who had the power to do something about it if they wanted to between 2019 and 2021 or so. In the final analysis, they didn't. As has been said on N54 before in various flavors - nobody much cares. Stuff triumphs over all.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

I think the market is just ignorant of the issue. Most collectors don't know who BODA is or what is in the Tiffany database. Doesn't mean they don't care. They just assume PSA is watching over everything.

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

I didn't know who Gary Moser was until I joined Net54. You don't need to be current on hobby news to buy a card on ebay. I think you may be overestimating the overall knowledge of card collectors.

P.S. I wouldn't call registry set buyers "investors". They are mostly in it for the competition and the bravado. From a money standpoint, you would be better off selling to registry builders than becoming one yourself.

I think a fair question, though, Al, is if they did know would they care? It seems from the number of people who do know but don't care, the answer unfortunately may be no.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think a fair question, though, Al, is if they did know would they care? It seems from the number of people who do know but don't care, the answer unfortunately may be no.

You can do an experiment. Put a card up on ebay and call it "professionally restored" and see how much it sells for.

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[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

You can do an experiment. Put a card up on ebay and call it "professionally restored" and see how much it sells for.

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Put that relatively in the fine print, and have the card still be in a PSA 8 slab. See how much it sells for.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Put that relatively in the fine print, and have the card still be in a PSA 8 slab. See how much it sells for.

How about a PSA 8 that has an obvious crease and is a counterfeit card? I sold one with full disclosure. I showed a close up pic of the obvious crease and told the buyer I 100% believed the card to be counterfeit. Buyer only cared it was in a PSA 8 slab.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

I didn't know who Gary Moser was until I joined Net54. You don't need to be current on hobby news to buy a card on ebay. I think you may be overestimating the overall knowledge of card collectors.

P.S. I wouldn't call registry set buyers "investors". They are mostly in it for the competition and the bravado. From a money standpoint, you would be better off selling to registry builders than becoming one yourself.

The overwhelming majority of sum total value from altered cards ends up in these guys collections though. And if these guys don't care, then I don't see anything ever being done about it.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Snowman

The overwhelming majority of sum total value from altered cards ends up in these guys collections though. And if these guys don't care, then I don't see anything ever being done about it.

We can quibble over percentages, but I generally agree. As long as there is a substantial part of the market that is indifferent or oblivious, card doctoring will thrive.

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[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

I think the market is just ignorant of the issue. Most collectors don't know who BODA is or what is in the Tiffany database. Doesn't mean they don't care. They just assume PSA is watching over everything.

Certainly, that's true to some extent, but I think the majority are indifferent at best. Most collectors have at least heard about it, but they just don't care enough to research all the details. Which is to say, they're not bothered by it enough to actually do something about it or change their behavior. Whether that's the same as endorsing it or not doesn't really matter, because it ultimately has the same effect.

Then you gave guys like Rick Probstein who stated in a social media video on Instagram that if he were to find out that cards in his collection had been trimmed, it wouldn't bother him at all because they were good enough to pass through grading and that's all he cares about.

If most people can't even be bothered by the trimming scandal, I think we can deduce where they'd stand on something as benign as cleaning, soaking, and flattening out smashed up corners.