Another theaory on why High Number series are rare

[stkuhl]

1963 Clemente is a high number although at the time he was probably not considered as big a star as Mantle, Mays, Koufax, and Aaron. Like a previous poster mentioned, I'm working on complete sets, with 1962 my focus fight now. It's frustrating to pay $30-40 for a Minnesota Twins team high number card. I'm guessing lots of those got pitched even when kids were opening high number packs.

[JollyElm]

Definitely some merit in that theory, since you would assume that the earlier series cards were flying off of the shelves right from the get-go as the new baseball seasoned dawned, and the desire for cards waned as the summer progressed (except for the kids who really wanted to ultimately have a complete set), so it would've been beneficial to heavily stock the lower series with cards of the players who were universally considered to be big stars, to keep us plunking down our nickels for a couple of months. As a kid, I didn't want a single star card, I wanted as many doubles of the star card as I could get my hands on to eventually use in trades. Everyone around me did the same, amassing doubles of the big guys.

Too bad there isn't some kind of first hand knowledge/insights about how and why Topps positioned the players (number-wise) in the sets. That would be fascinating information.

[toppcat]

In the Fifties, I think there's at least two years where Topps wasn't setting out to issue a final series of cards before pulling the trigger: 1952 and 1958, with 1957 and 1959 also being possibilities.

We all know the story in 1952 (and I expect some player contracts with competitors that expired in June also had a hand) but in 1958, with baseball expanding and until Topps had Musial in the bag, I don't think that last series was necessarily a foregone conclusion when the set was originally designed, although I suspect that by the time the fourth series was being prepped Topps had enough market info to allow them to proceed. Excluding the AS cards, the player mix is just awful, full of unknowns and rookies, with a couple has-beens thrown in. There's some other reasons too, I think. Some more on that at my blog:

https://www.thetoppsarchives.com/201...ing-slots.html

1957 is strange one, with that tough semi-high series and 1959 could mirror the prior year but for 1952 and 1958 it sure seems like some extra thought went into the calculations.

[skil55voy]

I can't speak to any of the cards before 1962. I started collecting in 1962 and I nearly completed the set from packs. I was living in Detroit at the time. (I was missing 10 or so cards which I picked up years later on at shows) I had the green tints and alternate poses. (Wally Moon etc..) In 1963 I never saw any series cards after the 4th Series in stores. In 1964 nothing after the 5th series. I collected an entire set in 1965 with the 7th series showing up in the stores in the middle of August. In 1966 nothing after the 6th series. (Sent a dollar to Topps and bought 10 cards in the 7th Series ordering by number) In 1967 once we got past the 5th series, cards were hard to find. I had partial series 6th and 7th series cards. (Had a Seaver rookie but no Carew) In 1968 I finished the set in August as well as 1969. 70,71,72 much the same as the early 60's. (I sent away to Topps for the final series in 70 and 71.) That all being said......
The owner of the local market where I bought most of my packs explained that he only got what he got from the wholesaler. If the wholesaler didn't order he didn't get. If the wholesaler didn't sell all of cards to local stores he may not order any more if he got orders later in the summer he would send what he had. ( I remember opening packs in late August in 1966 and 1970 and getting 4th or 5th series cards. ) The wholesalers basically controlled distribution.

[steve B]

The place to look isn't at what the kids were buying - Retailer to consumer.
But at the wholesaler to retailer business.

Any retailer, and the corner store people have been pretty sharp forever, would have to believe they would sell through the last series. If not, they wouldn't order them,in favor of something else. And with a need to preorder, the wholesalers salesmen would have been pushing football or something else in late summer to early fall. Then maybe hockey in some areas.


That lasted into the late 70's. Star Wars cards were very popular. First the blue and red sets, then the green and yellow ones. And there I figured it ended.
Until a friend from the other end of town asked if I had any of the orange ones.... In our town of about 50,000, only one store had them, and they sold out pretty quickly. I got a few, but only managed a couple trips up there.
Meanwhile all the small stores near me still had both the green and yellow series. and had them for a long time.

[Zach Wheat]

This is more of an offshoot to the original posters point; however, in the late 60's and 70's Topps selected star players for cards that were numbered at 100, 200, 300 etc/. with minor stars numbered at the 50, 150, 250, 350 positions. Not sure when this practice started or ended, but I remember it occurring.

[waxman27]

I think that Topps held out some of the big stars of the day until the high series, specifically in 1970 and 1971.

I agree with the above post regarding Bench and Robinson in the 1970 Series 7.

The 1970 AL MVP Boog Powell was in the high series in 1971, card #700.

Was Ryan a star after the 1969 World Series? He is in the last series, but only #712 not #700.

[Volod]

Originally Posted by steve B

The place to look isn't at what the kids were buying - Retailer to consumer.
But at the wholesaler to retailer business.

Any retailer, and the corner store people have been pretty sharp forever, would have to believe they would sell through the last series. If not, they wouldn't order them,in favor of something else. And with a need to preorder, the wholesalers salesmen would have been pushing football or something else in late summer to early fall. Then maybe hockey in some areas.

I dunno, Steve - My old man was a retailer in the 1960's and reasonably sharp, I suppose, and his corner store carried a large selection of cards, but the storeroom was relatively small. Since I worked there after school, I can recall many discussions he had with wholesalers about ordering stuff. The salesman would try to push new cards and my father would yell he had unopened boxes of earlier series that had to be returned because he couldn't move them. I recall him getting especially annoyed when the wholesaler once refused to extend a return credit because the merchandise was past its return date. I had to haul a couple of large cases of 1961 baseball cards out back to a dumpster because the storeroom needed more room. Painful memory now.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Volod

....I had to haul a couple of large cases of 1961 baseball cards out back to a dumpster because the storeroom needed more room. Painful memory now.

What memories!

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Volod

I dunno, Steve - My old man was a retailer in the 1960's and reasonably sharp, I suppose, and his corner store carried a large selection of cards, but the storeroom was relatively small. Since I worked there after school, I can recall many discussions he had with wholesalers about ordering stuff. The salesman would try to push new cards and my father would yell he had unopened boxes of earlier series that had to be returned because he couldn't move them. I recall him getting especially annoyed when the wholesaler once refused to extend a return credit because the merchandise was past its return date. I had to haul a couple of large cases of 1961 baseball cards out back to a dumpster because the storeroom needed more room. Painful memory now.

That's pretty much what I was thinking, the wholesaler would get pushed by Topps and would push the retailer, who wasn't buying if they still had earlier series.

Damn, cases of 61..... If anyone knew.

[rats60]

I agree with the above. I think it was totally driven by distribution and sales. High series cards were printed in larger numbers when released earlier in the year. 1965 was my first year and we got lots of all series cards. In 1967 we didn't get 7th series but had a ton of 6th series. In 1968-69 we had 7th series in August. In 1970 I asked for cards for my mid-August birthday party and only got 4th series. I didn't find 5th series until September when a kid at school let me know they were in the vending machine at K-Mart and I was still hunting 7th series too.

I don't think player selection had anything to do with sales. We just wanted cards and there were still stars in each series. In the 60s, only 3 players brought a premium, Mantle, Mays and Koufax. If Topps was concerned about player selection, why were all 3 in the 1st series in 1966? Wouldn't they be concerned that later series wouldn't sell?

Then look at 1970. Aaron in the 5th series, Mays and Rose in the 6th and the two best players on the two best teams, Johnny Bench and Frank Robinson in the 7th series. Why didn't Topps print that last series heavy instead of short printing it?