1960 Fleer Set

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by theshleps

Finally finished all possible in 1960 fleer set (all PSA slabbed- for what it is worth) with the Baker below. Still need Melillo, the Sisler/Traynor signed by both and the Cobb/Wheat/Baker signed by at least 2 of them. Willing to overpay

What an accomplishment, congratulations! Are those cards you're looking for considered near-impossible enough to be outside the realm of possibility?

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

With all due respect, I don't understand how this card made it into a slab unless it was some sort of internal paperwork snafu at PSA. If it wasn't, and it truly passed someone's muster at some point, I'd be incredibly shocked.

This card strongly reminds of a bunch of awful "signed" Fleer & Golden Press cards that hit eBay 20-25 years ago. All with that thick, flat calligraphy fountain pen nib. I'd share examples if I had saved any, but they were all so terrible that I didn't deem it necessary to retain scans. But frankly, even without being reminded of something else, my opinion would remain unchanged.

I hate to be the person to rain on the parade, so my apologies. And of course, my opinion only.

[theshleps]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

With all due respect, I don't understand how this card made it into a slab unless it was some sort of internal paperwork snafu at PSA. If it wasn't, and it truly passed someone's muster at some point, I'd be incredibly shocked.

This card strongly reminds of a bunch of awful "signed" Fleer & Diamond Press cards that hit eBay 20-25 years ago. All with that thick, flat calligraphy fountain pen nib. I'd share examples if I had saved any, but they were all so terrible that I didn't deem it necessary to retain scans. But frankly, even without being reminded of something else, my opinion would remain unchanged.

I hate to be the person to rain on the parade, so my apologies. And of course, my opinion only.

I was definitely hesitant on this one. I compared it with exemplers and I was inconclusive. With an older PSA sticker I'm not sure who would have approved it. I actually have 2 post stroke Bakers signed of this card and will probably keep one. I wanted the whole set to be PSA. PSA wont slab post stroke Bakers. If a better comes along I will probably try to replace it but I do think there is a decent possibility it is ok but definitely not sure

[theshleps]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

What an accomplishment, congratulations! Are those cards you're looking for considered near-impossible enough to be outside the realm of possibility?

Ive only seen Melillo once but he did have a year or two. Same with the Sisler Traynor. Never seen the Cobb/Baker/Wheat signed by all. I have one signed by Wheat and a post stroke Baker. Just always loved those sets.

[theshleps]

Opinion?
1960 Fleer #41 Baker JSA.jpg

[theshleps]

and how bout this. Opinions greatly appreciated
1960 Fleer #41 Baker JSA (2).jpg

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I have exponentially more confidence in both of those. Is there a reason the bottom one isn't in a slab? It appears like a casebook pre-stroke Baker to me, signed with all the confidence in the world. I'd love to know what we're not being told!

What we have to also keep in mind is the extremely narrow window wherein Baker could have signed this card with a healthy hand.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Another thing to always consider:

Flat calligraphy nib practically always = Coach's Corner-caliber forgery.

Go back and look at your dyed-in-the-wool authentic vintage fountain pen pieces. Heck, you can do it from memory. How many of them were signed using such an implement? My guess is none.

This type of fountain pen simply was not in popular use back then. For fun, let's pick a name from the fountain pen era who signed everything put in front of him. Say, Charlie Gehringer. OK, now how many examples have you encountered that were signed with a flathead calligraphy nib? For me, it has to be zero, and the number of fountain pen signatures I've handled, studied or examined has to total hundreds of thousands.

Those types of pens were always the cheapest and most readily available to find in the 80's and 90's at stationery shops. Usually in a calligraphy kit. As a rule of thumb, forgers are cheap. These pens were cheap. 1 + 1 = 2.

[theshleps]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Another thing to always consider:

Flat calligraphy nib practically always = Coach's Corner-caliber forgery.

Go back and look at your dyed-in-the-wool authentic vintage fountain pen pieces. Heck, you can do it from memory. How many of them were signed using such an implement? My guess is none.

This type of fountain pen simply was not in popular use back then. For fun, let's pick a name from the fountain pen era who signed everything put in front of him. Say, Charlie Gehringer. OK, now how many examples have you encountered that were signed with a flathead calligraphy nib? For me, it has to be zero, and the number of fountain pen signatures I've handled, studied or examined has to total hundreds of thousands.

Those types of pens were always the cheapest and most readily available to find in the 80's and 90's at stationery shops. Usually in a calligraphy kit. As a rule of thumb, forgers are cheap. These pens were cheap. 1 + 1 = 2.

Thanks Billy- I appreciate your expertise. The PSA slabbed Baker I look at as being a felt tip pen (maybe I am wrong). Those were introduced in 1955 according to google. I remember writing to guys in the late 1960s and I do believe some signed with that type pen. My memory could be faulty. Maybe others could chime in

[theshleps]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

I have exponentially more confidence in both of those. Is there a reason the bottom one isn't in a slab? It appears like a casebook pre-stroke Baker to me, signed with all the confidence in the world. I'd love to know what we're not being told!

What we have to also keep in mind is the extremely narrow window wherein Baker could have signed this card with a healthy hand.

Billy I realized I never answered you. Sorry. Both those unslabbed ones have full JSA. I'm going to pt the shakier on for sale. If anyone here isn't interested it will go to REA