"Improving" Cards: New poll

G1911 · #1 03-21-2024, 03:10 PM

I clicked the boxes for everything, but some of these are pretty minor in the category of "unethical".

Ultimately this is incredibly simple, but I know this group will bend itself into a pretzel to justify whatever is or may eventually be profitable. The average American types at somewhere around 40 WPM, apparently. "Rubbed off wax", "erased pencil mark", "removed ink with acetone", "Kurts spray for pinhole". These take literally less than 3 seconds to type into your listing. Why would you folks not just be open and honest? Far more time and effort is spent coming up with why things should not be disclosed than it would take to just spend less than 3 seconds to disclose it. The question is rhetorical, obviously it's because we want to stretch as much as we can to justify profitable things and pretend it's just too complicated or somehow ethical to not disclose rather than the obvious.

I am quite hard pressed to think of a case in the world where a lack of disclosure in a transaction is the ethical path and where people without a vested interest would by and large vote for that. It's the opposite, and we all know that when we aren't trying to justify things to boost values or make more money for ourselves or our friends.

brianp-beme · #2 03-21-2024, 10:51 PM

Rub off wax with panty hose

I had never heard of this before today. Might be a reason for some us to search out an old school undergarment wearing significant other.

And I wonder if this panty hose method works for ear wax?

Brian

perezfan · #3 03-21-2024, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Rub off wax with panty hose

I had never heard of this before today. Might be a reason for some us to search out an old school undergarment wearing significant other.

And I wonder if this panty hose method works for ear wax?

Brian

I've seen it done on occasion. It was the only box I did not check.

steve B · #4 03-22-2024, 09:02 AM

Some were pretty clear, others maybe not.

For example, I voted that using acetone etc to remove ink or other stuff was.
But
found an easy example just a few lines down with the black marker on 71s. That's clearly wrong.
But would removing that black marker be "bad" ... I don't think so. With the usual caution that we have no actual data on how that would affect the card long term.

The bonus question was difficult. I could do stuff to an already altered card like the above 71 and send it to PSA expecting nothing better than "Authentic"
If The self proclaimed experts cant spot it, and give it a number grade, that's an entirely different question. They could be incompetent, thus their claim of expertise is questionable and maybe unethical.
Or their stated standards are more flexible than I would like.

If I then sell that card without disclosure... again sort of a gray area. It would be a 71 whatever graded X...
Personally I would disclose the removed alteration, but I could see the argument that it's a PSA X because that's what the label says.

I have a card that I had graded, thought it was better than the VG it got. When I asked SGC at their booth, the guy there pointed out a well done erasure on the back that I'd totally missed.
Now, I still disagree with the grade, but not as much. I'd thought it was VG-EX, maybe a bit better, now maybe g-vg.
That probably should be disclosed so at least the next owner (Likely a long time from now) will know not to bother cracking it out in hoped of a better grade.

AustinMike · #5 03-22-2024, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

The bonus question was difficult. I could do stuff to an already altered card like the above 71 and send it to PSA expecting nothing better than "Authentic"

The bonus question really isn't that difficult. When sending items to PSA you agree to the following:

2. PSA will not grade items which bear evidence of trimming, recoloring, restoration or any other form of tampering, or are of questionable authenticity, and Customer agrees not to knowingly submit any such items.

By knowingly sending in "such items," you are breaking your agreement and are therefore, unethical.

vintagerookies51 · #6 03-22-2024, 02:39 PM

I'm most amazed by the percentage for the first one. If I accidentally bend the corner of a card then put it back into place before selling on the BST, that's unethical? To some people, even fraud? That's ridiculous to me

Snowman · #7 03-22-2024, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagerookies51

I'm most amazed by the percentage for the first one. If I accidentally bend the corner of a card then put it back into place before selling on the BST, that's unethical? To some people, even fraud? That's ridiculous to me

Welcome to Net54. Now go ask these questions of the general public (I've actually done this for fun). Nobody thinks any of this stuff is unethical outside of the hobby.

JustinD · #8 03-23-2024, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagerookies51

I'm most amazed by the percentage for the first one. If I accidentally bend the corner of a card then put it back into place before selling on the BST, that's unethical? To some people, even fraud? That's ridiculous to me

I think this is the most misunderstood modification on the board, not entirely sure why, but it really seems to be. The advertising for Kurt�s and the actual act of this is using moisture and rollers to press corners with damage to better and sharper condition.

How the understanding with some is that it would be flipping up a bent corner so it can slide in a toploader without an attempt to conceal is a silly debate. The corner is still bent and everyone can see it. If you have a card that is literally folded in half and you put it in a top loader it�s the same. Downgrading a repair method by comparing it with a logical manipulation to store it would be much the same as asking if deer hunting is the same as shooting up a 7-11.

Lorewalker · #9 03-22-2024, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinMike

The bonus question really isn't that difficult. When sending items to PSA you agree to the following:

2. PSA will not grade items which bear evidence of trimming, recoloring, restoration or any other form of tampering, or are of questionable authenticity, and Customer agrees not to knowingly submit any such items.

By knowingly sending in "such items," you are breaking your agreement and are therefore, unethical.

Key words here are bear evidence. More than one member says that if done right (i.e. don't bear evidence) there is nothing wrong with tampering or restoring. I disagree. Does not matter if the cards bear evidence or not it is the act of improving the cards that deem the act of submitting them unethical if your plan is to not disclose it upon sale.

View Poll Results: Am I unethical if I? SEE THREAD FOR COMPLETE QUESTION
Bend corners back	29	19.46%
Rub off wax with panty hose	17	11.41%
Erase pencil marks	51	34.23%
Soak cards to remove glue, dirt or stains	42	28.19%
Use acetone to remove ink or grime	96	64.43%
Use other chemicals to clean and/or brighten card	110	73.83%
Fix creases and/or pinholes with Kurt's magic spray	118	79.19%
Use a black marker on the corners of my 1971 Topps	138	92.62%
Trim off the fuzzy edges of the card	122	81.88%
BONUS: Am I unethical if I submit my work to PSA and they grade it	77	51.68%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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