1952 Topps - The Missing 3

[swarmee]

Ted Williams would be an obvious choice, right?
Kiner was in Bowman but not Topps. Nellie Fox.

Is this a trivia question where you know the answer or just want some pontificating?

[irv]

I'll guess and say Ted Williams, Stan Musial and Whitey Ford.

[Zach Wheat]

Surprisingly Rogers Hornsby was a coach in 1952 as well.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by irv

I'll guess and say Ted Williams, Stan Musial and Whitey Ford.

Ford was in the military in 1951 and 1952. I would say Ralph Kiner was the third player. Topps had him in their 1951 and 1953 sets.

[toppcat]

No way to tell but I'm curious if cards of the coaches and managers that started with the semi-highs represent slots where Topps was still waiting for a signed contract?

I have doubts Williams was to have appeared in the set as he went on the NDS list (I think that means either Non-Disabled Suspended or Non-Disabled Service) effective 5/2/52. And with DiMaggio retiring on 12/11/51 and being on the Voluntarily Retired List from that date he doesn't seem to fit the contractual parameters for Topps in 1952. I also doubt Musial was a possibility either.

Kiner, on the other hand, very much seems like a candidate.

It's possible some Berk-Ross contracts were exclusive. All four players above were 1952 B-R subjects.

[paul]

I thought the consensus was that the Berk Ross cards were unauthorized, so nobody would have been under an exclusive Berk Ross contract.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by paul

I thought the consensus was that the Berk Ross cards were unauthorized, so nobody would have been under an exclusive Berk Ross contract.

I've not heard that before but unauthorized over a two year period seems kind of weird. However, I just did a quick search and found this from an early August 1952 Sporting News article:

"SEVEN GIANTS POP POPCORN

Two popcorn firms have been asked by Supreme Court justice Samuel Gold of New York to show cause why they should not be stopped from placing pasteboard photographs of seven members of the Giants inside bags of their product. Larry Jansen, Bobby Thomson, Sal Maglie, Wes Westrum, Montia Kennedy, Dave Koslo and Bill Rigney also instituted action to recover $50,000 each from the companies on the ground that their pictures were used without their consent."

Which led to a Bob Lemke blog post: https://boblemke.blogspot.com/2012/0...nlicensed.html

Why only NY Giants players were involved in the suit was not revealed. Lemke also intimates 1952 B-R was sold with gum, which is interesting in context.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Ted Williams would be an obvious choice, right?
Kiner was in Bowman but not Topps. Nellie Fox.

Is this a trivia question where you know the answer or just want some pontificating?

I do not know the answer. However, I ran across an old SABR interview from 2004 in which Sy indicates that in 1954 Topps was trying hard to get Williams in their set, but Topps was still in a legal battle with Bowman. Although the article pertains to 1954, it still shows the passion Topps had for getting him in their set. As 1 of the missing 3, Williams is a good guess I think. Here's an old link to why Musial and Williams were missing from certain sets:

https://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=269235

And another link (worth the read) on how Ted Z found the old printing plates from 1954 Bowman with Williams on it

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=269275

[toppcat]

I came up with Art Schallock (Yankees), Joe Landrum (Dodgers) and Ray Noble (Giants) once as the possible last three cards, where my reasoning assumed no big names were available. More HERE if you are interested.

I looked at it again with some possible bigger names and came up with Ralph Kiner, Hal Newhouser and Johnny Logan as possibilities.

Again, more HERE if interested.

It's interesting that no White Sox players are in the highs.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by toppcat

I came up with Art Schallock (Yankees), Joe Landrum (Dodgers) and Ray Noble (Giants) once as the possible last three cards, where my reasoning assumed no big names were available. More HERE if you are interested.

I looked at it again with some possible bigger names and came up with Ralph Kiner, Hal Newhouser and Johnny Logan as possibilities.

Again, more HERE if interested.

It's interesting that no White Sox players are in the highs.

Just curious David - why not Ted Williams? Sy said in one of his interviews one of the missing 3 was one of his favorite players.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Just curious David - why not Ted Williams? Sy said in one of his interviews one of the missing 3 was one of his favorite players.

Sy said a lot of things over the years that were just PR puffery. They could have tried but missed out with Williams for any of several reasons but he seems like a guy they would try first in such a scenario. Mantle for instance, was signed on July 14th and the "second set" was out by some time in August but Ted was already back in the military for a couple of months by then.

Williams was with Berk-Ross, Star-Cal and Redman in 1952 it seems. I'm guessing his Berk-Ross deal could have been exclusive for trading cards with gum; they had DiMaggio too, who wasn't in any Bowman or Topps (1951) sets and I assume they paid up for some players of stature. It's ironic Joe D. was a spokesman for Bowman Color in 1953.

[Zach Wheat]

My feeling is it wasn't an exclusive contract with Berk Ross aka Hit Parade. Admittedly, I am not as versed in the particulars as you would be but Lemke wrote an article on the Berk Ross sets and he suggests the set was unlicensed and they were flirting with the NIL issue. Lemke details that the original lawsuit for NIL $$ actually originated from the Berk Ross set (compensation for 6 of the players was $20) and was filed by the same attorney (Shapiro) for the same reason as the more popular Haelean Lab (aka Bowman) V Topps Inc. lawsuit in 1953. So just a guess here...and its only a guess...but the contract with Williams wasn't exclusive since the compensation was minimal for the players mentioned in the lawsuit. To me, that suggests Hit Parade, et al. had a tight budget. The '51 set included 30 figures not related to baseball. This again suggests that Hit Parade et al. was on a tight budget.

My guess is Topps just couldn't get the contract with Williams signed as he was overseas by July of '52. And Berger has said a number of times Boston was his favorite team growing up, which leads me to think Williams might have been 1 of the 3.

Again just a wild guess.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

My feeling is it wasn't an exclusive contract with Berk Ross aka Hit Parade. Admittedly, I am not as versed in the particulars as you would be but Lemke wrote an article on the Berk Ross sets and he suggests the set was unlicensed and they were flirting with the NIL issue. Lemke details that the original lawsuit for NIL $$ actually originated from the Berk Ross set (compensation for 6 of the players was $20) and was filed by the same attorney (Shapiro) for the same reason as the more popular Haelean Lab (aka Bowman) V Topps Inc. lawsuit in 1953. So just a guess here...and its only a guess...but the contract with Williams wasn't exclusive since the compensation was minimal for the players mentioned in the lawsuit. To me, that suggests Hit Parade, et al. had a tight budget. The '51 set included 30 figures not related to baseball. This again suggests that Hit Parade et al. was on a tight budget.

My guess is Topps just couldn't get the contract with Williams signed as he was overseas by July of '52. And Berger has said a number of times Boston was his favorite team growing up, which leads me to think Williams might have been 1 of the 3.

Again just a wild guess.

Could be. All you can really do at this point is make best guesses on this stuff.

Am I reading this right, Berk-Ross may have been partially licensed? I'll have to look at that Lemke piece again.