eBay buys Goldin

Snowman · #1 04-11-2024, 03:17 AM

The most interesting component of this deal to me is that PSA is taking the vaults. Obviously, I get eBay buying Goldin (hence I predicted it when seemingly no one else did), but eBay & Goldin wanting out of the vault game is interesting. The primary reason PWCC's vault works so well, other than the fact that they were the first to do it in this hobby, is that it gives them a portal through which sellers can easily list their cards on their marketplace and thus brings in revenue. But if they didn't have a marketplace, it wouldn't be very cost effective. I can't imagine a scenario where a vault that isn't tethered to a marketplace survives long term. Obviously, PSA has some sort of agreement with ebay here which covers the cost of operating the vault, but it sure is interesting to see ebay aborting their vault project so quickly and effectively contracting it out to PSA. But what does PSA get out of it? Surely, PSA can operate it cheaper than ebay could, just by the nature of their businesses, but it's still a fascinating strategic component of the deal.

Snowman · #2 04-11-2024, 03:24 AM

This video is pretty funny in light of the news about ebay buying out Goldin. It's a video where Ken goes on a rant about how bad ebay is for selling cards lol

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CMDPijN...Q1ZGUxMzBkMA==

SyrNy1960 · #3 04-11-2024, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

This video is pretty funny in light of the news about ebay buying out Goldin. It's a video where Ken goes on a rant about how bad ebay is for selling cards lol

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CMDPijN...Q1ZGUxMzBkMA==

In the King of Collectibles: The Goldin Touch | Official Trailer | Netflix, Ken stated he is motivated by three things: Competition, Ego, and Money.

Rhotchkiss · #4 04-11-2024, 06:50 AM

The main/primary reason PWCC�s vault works is state sales tax avoidance. Plain and simple. Take the tax savings out of the equation and I doubt vaults gain traction

Peter_Spaeth · #5 04-11-2024, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

The main/primary reason PWCC�s vault works is state sales tax avoidance. Plain and simple. Take the tax savings out of the equation and I doubt vaults gain traction

Avoidance or evasion?

4815162342 · #6 04-11-2024, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Avoidance or evasion?

The first that I ever heard of this vault tax �avoidance� concept was on the show Billions. The lead character used a vault and eventually an actual apartment to avoid a multi-million dollar use tax bill on some pieces of art. Then I start collecting again, and lo and behold, it�s now big business in the hobby.

Rhotchkiss · #7 04-11-2024, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Avoidance or evasion?

Avoidance. There is nothing illegal (evasion) about buying an asset in a sales/use tax free state and leaving it in that state long enough. If you buy a card, have it sent to Oregon to avoid taxes, and remove it to NY a few days, weeks, months later, that is evasion. Sending it to Oregon, to reside permanently until sold, or for a substantial period (usually a year to be "old and cold"), even if done to save taxes, is avoidance and good business/tax planning.

Snowman · #8 04-12-2024, 03:18 AM

I think my favorite take so far in this thread is the, "aha! See! eBay didn't buy Goldin. Really, it's more like a merger."

:facepalm:

Lorewalker · #9 04-12-2024, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

I think my favorite take so far in this thread is the, "aha! See! eBay didn't buy Goldin. Really, it's more like a merger."

:facepalm:

And I know my favorite post on this thread will always be "hence I predicted it when seemingly no one else did" from Net54's Miss Cleo.

D. Bergin · #10 04-12-2024, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

I think my favorite take so far in this thread is the, "aha! See! eBay didn't buy Goldin. Really, it's more like a merger."

:facepalm:

Moi?

Just commenting on the article. Don't think I ever expressed an opinion one way or another on your "scoop".

Peter_Spaeth · #11 04-12-2024, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Avoidance. There is nothing illegal (evasion) about buying an asset in a sales/use tax free state and leaving it in that state long enough. If you buy a card, have it sent to Oregon to avoid taxes, and remove it to NY a few days, weeks, months later, that is evasion. Sending it to Oregon, to reside permanently until sold, or for a substantial period (usually a year to be "old and cold"), even if done to save taxes, is avoidance and good business/tax planning.

I would bet a lot more people are evading than avoiding.

Bigdaddy · #12 04-13-2024, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

The main/primary reason PWCC�s vault works is state sales tax avoidance. Plain and simple. Take the tax savings out of the equation and I doubt vaults gain traction

Surely another factor in providing a vault is to take advantage/possession of abandoned cards. Sort of like abandoned storage units, which we see all the time. Most certainly the percentage of such cards is not 0%.

Lorewalker · #13 04-11-2024, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

The most interesting component of this deal to me is that PSA is taking the vaults. Obviously, I get eBay buying Goldin (hence I predicted it when seemingly no one else did), but eBay & Goldin wanting out of the vault game is interesting. The primary reason PWCC's vault works so well, other than the fact that they were the first to do it in this hobby, is that it gives them a portal through which sellers can easily list their cards on their marketplace and thus brings in revenue. But if they didn't have a marketplace, it wouldn't be very cost effective. I can't imagine a scenario where a vault that isn't tethered to a marketplace survives long term. Obviously, PSA has some sort of agreement with ebay here which covers the cost of operating the vault, but it sure is interesting to see ebay aborting their vault project so quickly and effectively contracting it out to PSA. But what does PSA get out of it? Surely, PSA can operate it cheaper than ebay could, just by the nature of their businesses, but it's still a fascinating strategic component of the deal.

The vault has appeal to most due to the ability to avoid paying sales tax. Most of us will become sellers at some point but until then I think most collectors prefer to have their cards in their possession and not located in a vault.

And maybe I did not read the wordsmith release closely enough but is PSA getting two vaults out of this? I understood they were simply keeping theirs that they had with Goldin. Did not see that eBay was giving up theirs too.

And maybe I am in the minority here but what is so obvious about why eBay would want Goldin or any brick and mortar house?

Peter_Spaeth · #14 04-11-2024, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

The vault has appeal to most due to the ability to avoid paying sales tax. Most of us will become sellers at some point but until then I think most collectors prefer to have their cards in their possession and not located in a vault.

And maybe I did not read the wordsmith release closely enough but is PSA getting two vaults out of this? I understood they were simply keeping theirs that they had with Goldin. Did not see that eBay was giving up theirs too.

And maybe I am in the minority here but what is so obvious about why eBay would want Goldin or any brick and mortar house?

But "investors" don't need to see their cards.

Lorewalker · #15 04-11-2024, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

But "investors" don't need to see their cards.

I need to adapt to the new industry where card altering is a very good thing and the term collector is now synonymous with investor.

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