Would you buy a 1933 Goudey Ruth Raw?

bnorth · #1 04-29-2024, 12:25 PM

Absolutely and if I wasn't comfortable doing so I would stop collecting. I understand a new collector needing some help. A raw card has no more of a chance being altered than a slabbed card. In the real world it probably has a way less chance of being altered as they are altered to get into slabs.

darwinbulldog · #2 04-29-2024, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

Absolutely and if I wasn't comfortable doing so I would stop collecting. I understand a new collector needing some help. A raw card has no more of a chance being altered than a slabbed card. In the real world it probably has a way less chance of being altered as they are altered to get into slabs.

I was under the impression that most of the trimmed pre-war cards were trimmed before any TPGs existed. Is that not correct?

G1911 · #3 04-29-2024, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I was under the impression that most of the trimmed pre-war cards were trimmed before any TPGs existed. Is that not correct?

Massive amounts of trimmed cards in PSA/SGC/etc. slabs have been outed as trimmed the last few years. Trimming did not stop with the advent of graders who seem unable or unwilling to detect a halfway decent trim job.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 04-29-2024, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Massive amounts of trimmed cards in PSA/SGC/etc. slabs have been outed as trimmed the last few years. Trimming did not stop with the advent of graders who seem unable or unwilling to detect a halfway decent trim job.

I think far far more have been trimmed post TPG. 30 plus years and counting, and God only knows how many of these scumbags (I mean leading hobby figures) are still out there every day.

G1911 · #5 04-29-2024, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think far far more have been trimmed post TPG. 30 plus years and counting, and God only knows how many of these scumbags (I mean leading hobby figures) are still out there every day.

The greater the profit and the easier the profit is made, the more fraud there will be. I see no reason to think fraud is not an all time high in the hobby the last few years with how easy it is to do and how immensely high the returns are. We are probably at many, many multiples of 1990 fraud levels in terms of real dollars, inflation adjusted dollars, and quantity of incidents but I don�t have data to prove that.

brianp-beme · #6 04-29-2024, 05:00 PM

I would have no hesitation to buy it without TPG assurances under the scenario described. I would not make the purchase, because nowadays I would not be able to afford it, even at a very reasonable price.

Brian (I bought my 2 piece 1933 Goudey Ruth in a group lot back in the day, and I valued its share of the purchase cost at the lowest possible 3 digit number)

Touch'EmAll · #7 04-29-2024, 05:07 PM

Generally, no. Although a graded card can be undetected altered, at least its in a slab and can easily be sold if you might be suspicious. But a raw, if it comes back un-slabable, what are you going to do now ?

bnorth · #8 04-29-2024, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

Generally, no. Although a graded card can be undetected altered, at least its in a slab and can easily be sold if you might be suspicious. But a raw, if it comes back un-slabable, what are you going to do now ?

I believe this has a lot to do with why so many do not care about card alterations. If they find out their graded card is altered they can still easily pass it on to the next graded card collector/investor. Kinda like the modern game of hot potato with prospects.

perezfan · #9 04-29-2024, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

Absolutely and if I wasn't comfortable doing so I would stop collecting. I understand a new collector needing some help. A raw card has no more of a chance being altered than a slabbed card. In the real world it probably has a way less chance of being altered as they are altered to get into slabs.

+1 (in terms of altered cards residing in numbered slabs).

Also... Why are people putting so much stock in TPGs? Do they not pay attention, or are they so insecure that they need someone else to tell them what their own eyes should easily perceive?

Take this 1956 Jackie Card with its mangled top border and multiple creases. Does anyone really think this card is a "5.5"? I prefer to trust my own judgement...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/28583419175...Bk9SR7LIgc3lYw

Lorewalker · #10 04-30-2024, 12:58 AM

I answered yes based on the conditions of the sale. And as was stated a few posts above, I think most of us think we are great at catching alterations but I would wager (in honor of snowman) that most who think they can spot alterations would not do well on a grading test.

pclpads · #11 04-30-2024, 03:09 AM

Only if I was drunk, drugged and blindfolded.

Ben Yourg · #12 04-30-2024, 07:51 AM

I'm selling my collection of the 239 card set.I put it together
in the early 90s.Then I got very busy at work,and personal
problems.
So,I put it away until now.Grading was not in the picture?
We looped them,held them,and inspected them.

Eric72 · #13 04-30-2024, 07:56 AM

I don�t collect Goudey; however, tweak the original question slightly and I�d feel comfortable buying raw. A T206 Matty, Cobb, or WaJo? Yes, I�d buy it ungraded in person.

Carter08 · #14 04-30-2024, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

+1 (in terms of altered cards residing in numbered slabs).

Also... Why are people putting so much stock in TPGs? Do they not pay attention, or are they so insecure that they need someone else to tell them what their own eyes should easily perceive?

Take this 1956 Jackie Card with its mangled top border and multiple creases. Does anyone really think this card is a "5.5"? I prefer to trust my own judgement...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/28583419175...Bk9SR7LIgc3lYw

Knew it would be an old label before looking.

perezfan · #15 05-01-2024, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

Knew it would be an old label before looking.

"We stand by the grade"

Peter_Spaeth · #16 05-01-2024, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

"We stand by the grade"

Yup. That guarantee doesn't mean much when they control the reviews.

parkplace33 · #17 05-01-2024, 12:19 PM

So as of now, its 52 percent yes, 28 percent no, and 18 percent maybe.

When I posed this topic to my circle of 10 friends, it was 80 percent No and 20 percent yes. The yeses mostly gave answers like above.

The Nos said three things:

1. Concern over why a dealer would sell a 5k plus card raw.
2. No reason to buy. There are plenty of graded ones out there already.
3. Basically, not worth the risk.

FYI, I am in the Yes camp. I would have qualms purchasing the card in this scenario.

Peter_Spaeth · #18 05-01-2024, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parkplace33

So as of now, its 52 percent yes, 28 percent no, and 18 percent maybe.

When I posed this topic to my circle of 10 friends, it was 80 percent No and 20 percent yes. The yeses mostly gave answers like above.

The Nos said three things:

1. Concern over why a dealer would sell a 5k plus card raw.
2. No reason to buy. There are plenty of graded ones out there already.
3. Basically, not worth the risk.

FYI, I am in the Yes camp. I would have qualms purchasing the card in this scenario.

IMO people here are either overrating their own abilities or underestimating card doctors or both. There are countless altered cards now in slabs, and it's not just incompetence or corruption.

parkplace33 · #19 05-06-2024, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parkplace33

So as of now, its 52 percent yes, 28 percent no, and 18 percent maybe.

When I posed this topic to my circle of 10 friends, it was 80 percent No and 20 percent yes. The yeses mostly gave answers like above.

The Nos said three things:

1. Concern over why a dealer would sell a 5k plus card raw.
2. No reason to buy. There are plenty of graded ones out there already.
3. Basically, not worth the risk.

FYI, I am in the Yes camp. I would have qualms purchasing the card in this scenario.

Update, it is now 49 percent yes, 32 percent no, and 18 percent maybe.

packs · #20 04-30-2024, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

+1 (in terms of altered cards residing in numbered slabs).

Also... Why are people putting so much stock in TPGs? Do they not pay attention, or are they so insecure that they need someone else to tell them what their own eyes should easily perceive?

Take this 1956 Jackie Card with its mangled top border and multiple creases. Does anyone really think this card is a "5.5"? I prefer to trust my own judgement...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/28583419175...Bk9SR7LIgc3lYw

Lawyers don't represent themselves despite their grasp of law. It's because you might be seeing what you want to see.

soxinseven · #21 04-30-2024, 11:49 AM

I would definitely buy a raw Goudey Ruth as I've handled them over the years. I bought a collection a few years back that had a Goudey and two Sport Kings Ruth cards in it along with a bunch of other Goudeys.

bbcard1 · #22 04-30-2024, 12:05 PM

Sure.

Interesting this would come up. I bought a lot of raw Diamond Stars off another group and when they came, they were all considerably short/thin compared to the rest of my set. I am aware of the variation in National Chicle, but was uncomfortable with them. The seller was good with the refund. He sold them to someone else and they all graded (none were of any notable value) and he sent me a note that they weren't trimmed. I am very sure they were not only because of the smallness but the borders seemed a bit wavy to me. It worked out ok for both of us as I would have been uncomfortable with them in my set (which I intend to keep the commons raw).

View Poll Results: Would you buy a 1933 Goudey Ruth Raw?
Yes	134	49.63%
No	87	32.22%
Maybe	49	18.15%
Voters: 270. You may not vote on this poll

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
FS: 1933 Goudey 149 Ruth PSA 2 (price cut) & '34 Goudey Gehrig 61 SGC 2 (SOLD)	jburl	1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T	3	09-21-2023 06:24 PM
1933 Goudey Ruth 144, '34 Goudey Gehrig, '38 Goudey DiMaggio for sale	realbigfatdog	Pre-WWII cards (E, D, M, etc..) B/S/T	2	12-12-2021 05:29 PM
WTB - 1933 Goudey Ruth and 1948 Leaf Robinson/Ruth	jmbaileyniu	1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T	1	04-15-2019 07:12 PM
FS: 1928 Harrington's Babe Ruth and 1933 Goudey Ruth #149	piecesofthegame	1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T	1	01-04-2013 06:50 AM
SALE: 1933 Goudey Ruth SGC 10 & 1932 Sanella Ruth PSA 6	iggyman	1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T	2	08-01-2011 06:11 PM