2024 Classic HOF election

[theshleps]

Does anyone think any managers, execs and negro league have a chance??

[Casey2296]

I'd like to see Lefty O'Doul get in for his work he did promoting baseball in Japan. If Buck O'Neal is in Lefty should be too.

I'd also like to see Joe Jackson get in considering the wholesale embracing of Manfred and the gamblers, but they would have to admit their blatant hypocrisy which won't happen.

[jingram058]

I would like to see Cecil Travis, Riggs Stephenson, Stan Hack, Maury Wills, Thurman Munson, and Don Mattingly get in, but it's never going to happen for any of them, I suppose. I did live long enough to see Gil Hodges get in, so one can cling to hope.

[Svabinsky78]

I hope that Bill Dahlen finally gets a nod (probably won't). I would like to see Tommy John get in as well.

From the really old player pool, you have guys like Jimmy "Pony" Ryan, McCormick, Tony Mullane, Pete Browning, Cy Williams, and Stuffy McInnis.

From the 60s guys, I would put in Al Oliver, Vada Pinson, Harvey Kuenn.

I second Lefty O'Doul.

I second Mattingly, one of my all time favorite players, but he is contemporary era committee guy. For the contemporary era, I would also throw in Dwight Evans, Keith Hernandez, Dave Parker, Omar Vizquel, Schilling, Murphy, Whitaker.

I do think that Dick Allen will get the nod.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I thought Allen just got rejected, how can he be up again?

[Svabinsky78]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I thought Allen just got rejected, how can he be up again?

He cannot be a candidate on the Dec 2024 ballot for Classic Era Committee that votes on pre 1980 players? I know that with the last ballot he fell short. I am not familiar with the voting process. I am not sure if he would have to sit out a round because he got rejected the last time.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I thought Allen just got rejected, how can he be up again?

Originally Posted by Svabinsky78

He cannot be a candidate on the Dec 2024 ballot for Classic Era Committee that votes on pre 1980 players? I know that with the last ballot he fell short. I am not familiar with the voting process. I am not sure if he would have to sit out a round because he got rejected the last time.

I don't think there is any rule requiring someone to sit out a round after previously being considered. He missed by 1 vote in both 2015 and 2022. I'm not sure if there was a ballot in between that he was eligible for but wasn't on.

From what I found on the Baseball Hall of Fame website, this is how the ballot is determined:

"Screening Committee

The BBWAA-appointed Historical Overview Committee shall serve as the Screening Committee and consist of 10-12 representatives. The Committee shall identify eight (8) candidates for the Contemporary Baseball Era Players, Contemporary Baseball Era Non-Players and Classic Baseball Era ballot."

The Classic Baseball Era ballot is for players prior to 1980 which is where Allen would be, and the next ballot for this group will be voted on this year in December.

https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-fam...era-committees

[packs]

Put in Glasscock finally. People are already paying for him like he’s in and he deserves it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Reading suggests Allen next eligible in 2026.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Reading suggests Allen next eligible in 2026.

Where did you see that? Based on what I found, I think he could be on the ballot the end of this year.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Where did you see that? Based on what I found, I think he could be on the ballot the end of this year.

https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia...-hall-of-fame/

And this.

https://www.cooperstowncred.com/dick...-hall-of-fame/
Dick Allen was indeed a controversial player. He had the talent equal to the game’s all-time greats and does not have the career statistics to match. That is why he does not yet have a plaque in Cooperstown. So many of us expected that status to change with the Hall’s Class of 2022. But it was not to be. We’ll all have to wait until the December 2026 ballot, which will consider players for the Class of 2027.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia...-hall-of-fame/

And this.

https://www.cooperstowncred.com/dick...-hall-of-fame/
Dick Allen was indeed a controversial player. He had the talent equal to the game’s all-time greats and does not have the career statistics to match. That is why he does not yet have a plaque in Cooperstown. So many of us expected that status to change with the Hall’s Class of 2022. But it was not to be. We’ll all have to wait until the December 2026 ballot, which will consider players for the Class of 2027.

Thanks for the links. They seem to contradict what's on the Baseball Hall of Fame site so I guess we'll see what happens later this year.

UPCOMING ERA COMMITTEES ELECTIONS
Classic Baseball Era: December of 2024 for inclusion in the Class of 2025

The Classic Baseball Era, consisting of the period prior to 1980 and including Negro Leagues and pre-Negro Leagues stars.

[packs]

I’d like to see Perucho Cepeda get consideration but he avoided the Negro Leagues and America in general and I can’t think of another player who played solely in leagues like him that got in.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I would like to see Cecil Travis, Riggs Stephenson, Stan Hack, Maury Wills, Thurman Munson, and Don Mattingly get in, but it's never going to happen for any of them, I suppose. I did live long enough to see Gil Hodges get in, so one can cling to hope.

I want to edit my list above, and add Dick Allen.

Read about him in his Wikipedia page to see how misrepresented and unfairly written about he was:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Allen

Detractors of Allen's Hall of Fame credentials argue that his career was not as long as most Hall of Famers, and therefore lacked the career cumulative numbers that others do. They further argue that the controversies surrounding him negatively impacted his teams.[40]

Hall of Fame player Willie Stargell countered with a historical perspective of Dick Allen's time: "Dick Allen played the game in the most conservative era in baseball history. It was a time of change and protest in the country, and baseball reacted against all that. They saw it as a threat to the game. The sportswriters were reactionary too. They didn't like seeing a man of such extraordinary skills doing it his way. It made them nervous. Dick Allen was ahead of his time. His views and way of doing things would go unnoticed today. If I had been manager of the Phillies back when he was playing, I would have found a way to make Dick Allen comfortable. I would have told him to blow off the writers. It was my observation that when Dick Allen was comfortable, balls left the park."[41]

The two managers for whom Allen played the longest – Gene Mauch of the Phillies, and Chuck Tanner of the White Sox – agreed with Willie Stargell that Allen was not a "clubhouse lawyer" who harmed team chemistry. Asked if Allen's behavior ever had a negative influence on the team, Mauch said, "Never. Dick's teammates always liked him. I'd take him in a minute."[34] According to Tanner, "Dick was the leader of our team, the captain, the manager on the field. He took care of the young kids, took them under his wing. And he played every game as if it was his last day on earth."[42]

Hall of Fame player Orlando Cepeda agreed, saying to author Tim Whitaker, "Dick Allen played with fire in his eyes."[43]

Hall of Fame teammate Goose Gossage also confirmed Tanner's view. In an interview with USA TODAY Sports, Gossage said: "I've been around the game a long time, and he's the greatest player I've ever seen play in my life. He had the most amazing season (1972) I've ever seen. He's the smartest baseball man I've ever been around in my life. He taught me how to pitch from a hitter's perspective, and taught me how to play the game right. There's no telling the numbers this guy could have put up if all he worried about was stats. The guy belongs in the Hall of Fame."[44]

Another of Allen's ex-White Sox teammates, pitcher Stan Bahnsen, said, "I actually thought that Dick was better than his stats. Every time we needed a clutch hit, he got it. He got along great with his teammates and he was very knowledgeable about the game. He was the ultimate team guy."[45]

Another Hall of Fame teammate, Mike Schmidt, credited Dick Allen in his book, Clearing the Bases, as his mentor.[46] In Schmidt's biography, written by historian William C. Kashatus, Schmidt fondly recalls Allen mentoring him before a game in Chicago in 1976, saying to him, "Mike, you've got to relax. You've got to have some fun. Remember when you were just a kid and you'd skip supper to play ball? You were having fun. Hey, with all the talent you've got, baseball ought to be fun. Enjoy it. Be a kid again." Schmidt responded by hitting four home runs in the game. Schmidt is quoted in the same book, "The baseball writers used to claim that Dick would divide the clubhouse along racial lines. That was a lie. The truth is that Dick never divided any clubhouse."

[The Detroit Collector]

The way Catchers are getting recognized these days, I would like to see Bill Freehan get in.

[perezfan]

I would like to see 3 Cincinnati-related Execs get in, as all three are overlooked...

John Brush, August Herrmann, and Bob Howsam (despite his idiotic decision to trade Tony Perez for Woody Fryman after the 1976 season). Still, the architect and creator of the Big Red Machine needs to be in the HOF.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by The Detroit Collector

The way Catchers are getting recognized these days, I would like to see Bill Freehan get in.

11x all star, but has he even been on a ballot in recent years?

[molenick]

The fact that there are only two era committees and the early one covers anyone before 1980 will make it very difficult for any specific player we mention to get in. Essentially they are considering everyone from Jim Creighton to Dick Allen (about 120 years of baseball). First you have to get on the ballot, then you need 3/4 of the votes. As mentioned, the ballot consists of eight names, and I have a feeling many of of us could think of eight players (or managers, executives, umpires, pioneers, etc.) deserving of consideration in any of five distinct categories: 19th century, dead ball era, live ball era pre-integration, post-integration before 1980, Negro League and pre-Negro Leagues...let alone eight people from the entire period.

To whittle 120 years of candidates down to eight will be a tough task...and then you need to get 75% of the final vote. So, I imagine someone will get in...but who that will be seems like a crap shoot.

[Moonlight Graham]

Roger Maris

[Exhibitman]

Needs a card

[Brian Van Horn]

I have to hold off. I'm thinking of who is not in the Rock Hall of Fame and that list includes Gordon Lightfoot, Joe Cocker, Steppenwolf and the Guess Who. Since the last National in Cleveland, however, the Ferris wheel has been moved from the airport to the Rock Hall of Fame.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by packs

Put in Glasscock finally. People are already paying for him like he’s in and he deserves it.

Especially, playing as well as he did with that handicap.


.

[The Detroit Collector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

11x all star, but has he even been on a ballot in recent years?

It's been forever. But with there being a new look at catchers these days, he should get another look, especially if Thurman Munson is in the conversation.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Especially, playing as well as he did with that handicap.


.

Well played

[BioCRN]

Not seem him mentioned yet, but I'm invested in Luis Tiant making the HOF one day.

I use "HOF prospecting" to help finance my hobby purchases...buying graded RC's of guys who are undervalued because of a lack of hobby heat. Jim Kaat was a recent big win for the wallet. I made a decent profit on a few Jim Leyland graded, but his market didn't materialize as much as I hoped. Dick Allen has been over-heated so long I don't like the buy-in price, though many think he's a sure thing one day.

Also, I wonder how this committee handles a guy like Dave Parker. He played more games during the 80s, but he was obviously at his hottest during the 70s.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Not seem him mentioned yet, but I'm invested in Luis Tiant making the HOF one day.

I use "HOF prospecting" to help finance my hobby purchases...buying graded RC's of guys who are undervalued because of a lack of hobby heat. Jim Kaat was a recent big win for the wallet. I made a decent profit on a few Jim Leyland graded, but his market didn't materialize as much as I hoped. Dick Allen has been over-heated so long I don't like the buy-in price, though many think he's a sure thing one day.

Also, I wonder how this committee handles a guy like Dave Parker. He played more games during the 80s, but he was obviously at his hottest during the 70s.

There's a decent list of guys like Tiant, John, Grich, even Concepcion that can be picked up dirt cheap. I've always thought it was an underrated strategy. Ted Simmons is another great success story for those who bought like this.

[JollyElm]

1044. Coopersdownpayment
The strategy of buying up cards of a player you feel stands a better than average shot of getting into the Hall of Fame through the voting of one of the various ‘veterans’ subcommittees.

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

1044. Coopersdownpayment
The strategy of buying up cards of a player you feel stands a better than average shot of getting into the Hall of Fame through the voting of one of the various ‘veterans’ subcommittees.

Absoloutely! Ha.

Not that being "fair" matters too much in such a money-driven hobby, but my purchases haven't moved any markets as far as I can tell. Many of the purchases go down over many years and I bid below market on everything.

I lose 95%+ of the time. I'm only interested in deals on these slabs that will sit for years/decade+ since it's tieing up money.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

1044. Coopersdownpayment
The strategy of buying up cards of a player you feel stands a better than average shot of getting into the Hall of Fame through the voting of one of the various ‘veterans’ subcommittees.

BainesGains. Profits made from speculating on Harold Baines cards just before his surprise HOF election.

[ejharrington]

I hope Ross Barnes is inducted as a Pioneer.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by molenick

The fact that there are only two era committees and the early one covers anyone before 1980 will make it very difficult for any specific player we mention to get in. Essentially they are considering everyone from Jim Creighton to Dick Allen (about 120 years of baseball). First you have to get on the ballot, then you need 3/4 of the votes. As mentioned, the ballot consists of eight names, and I have a feeling many of of us could think of eight players (or managers, executives, umpires, pioneers, etc.) deserving of consideration in any of five distinct categories: 19th century, dead ball era, live ball era pre-integration, post-integration before 1980, Negro League and pre-Negro Leagues...let alone eight people from the entire period.

To whittle 120 years of candidates down to eight will be a tough task...and then you need to get 75% of the final vote. So, I imagine someone will get in...but who that will be seems like a crap shoot.

Yes, this. There are SO many directions the committee could go, it's almost impossible to speculate. Maybe this is the discussion of "who could/should be on the ballot".

But 8 players from 120 years of baseball is tough. I'm sure you could come up with a good list of 8 pre-war, 8 50's-60's, 8 70's, and 8 negro league stars and all those lists would be defensible. Probably a list of managers, execs, pioneers, etc. that you could add to the tally.

It'll be really interesting to see who ends up on the ballot. The only sure thing is that there will be SOME deserving candiates on the list, but that none of us will agree with the entire list.

[Beercan collector]

Phil Plantier

[Bobmc]

Tommy John and Billy Pierce

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

I hope Ross Barnes is inducted as a Pioneer.

+++++1

[jingram058]

I second Lefty O'doul and Billy Pierce.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

BainesGains. Profits made from speculating on Harold Baines cards just before his surprise HOF election.

I had this one from way back when (Whoa! Has it already been that long??):

192. Raising Baines
The tumult caused by lesser players being enshrined in the Hall of Fame.

[molenick]

To get an idea of how hard it will be for a 19th century player to get in, here are the winners of SABR's Overlooked 19th Century Baseball Legends annual election.

Besides these players, among recent nominees are Tommy Bond, Charlie Buffinton, Lave Cross, Paul Hines, Grant “Home Run” Johnson, Dick McBride, Jim McCormick, Cal McVey, Jim Mutrie, Dickey Pearce, Lip Pike, Al Reach, Jimmy Ryan, Ben Shibe, George Stovey, Chris Von der Ahe, and George Van Haltren.

If 19th century fans are lucky, maybe two of these will be among the eight to be nominated. And there's no guarantee any of them will get on the ballot because they are competing with players from 1900-1980 and I have a feeling Luis Tiant, Dick Allen, Thurman Munson, Ken Boyer, Dave Parker, Tommy John, etc. will be more familiar than any of these players...not to mention Sherry Magee, Wes Ferrell, Stan Hack, Vern Stephens, Bob Johnson, Bobby Veach, Vada Pinson, Babe Adams, Billy Pierce, Wilbur Cooper, Bucky Walters, etc.).

And once they are on the ballot, they will need 75% of the votes.

[Steve D]

Apparently, the hall of fame has changed the committee format again.

In September of 2020, I made an excel spreadsheet for the hall of fame election schedule. It was this:

Early Baseball - 1871-1949
Golden Days - 1950 - 1969
Modern Baseball - 1970 - 1987
Today's Game - 1988 - Present

The Modern and Today's Game committees were to each meet every two years.
The Early Baseball and Golden Days committees were to meet in 2022, and then every five years.

Now, it appears they've reduced it to three committees as follows:

Classic Era - Everything before 1980 - Meets in Dec 2024
Contemporary Era (Players) - 1980 to the Present - Meets in Dec 2025
Contemporary Era (Mgrs/Execs/Umps) - 1980 to Present - Meets Dec 2026

Each of the three committees will meet every third year.

Steve

[Steve D]

I'd vote for the following:

Bill Dahlen
Jimmy Ryan
Lefty O'Doul
Dick Allen
Tommy John
Luis Tiant

Steve

[molenick]

Originally Posted by Steve D

Apparently, the hall of fame has changed the committee format again.

In September of 2020, I made an excel spreadsheet for the hall of fame election schedule. It was this:

Early Baseball - 1871-1949
Golden Days - 1950 - 1969
Modern Baseball - 1970 - 1987
Today's Game - 1988 - Present

The Modern and Today's Game committees were to each meet every two years.
The Early Baseball and Golden Days committees were to meet in 2022, and then every five years.

Now, it appears they've reduced it to three committees as follows:

Classic Era - Everything before 1980 - Meets in Dec 2024
Contemporary Era (Players) - 1980 to the Present - Meets in Dec 2025
Contemporary Era (Mgrs/Execs/Umps) - 1980 to Present - Meets Dec 2026

Each of the three committees will meet every third year.

Steve

Right. At least with the previous committees, the earlier players had a chance (and occasionally one would get in). Now it will be very difficult because they are competing with a larger pool of players.

[SmokyBurgess]

Curt Flood.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Steve D

I'd vote for the following:

Bill Dahlen
Jimmy Ryan
Lefty O'Doul
Dick Allen
Tommy John
Luis Tiant

Steve

+1...good list. Used to love Tiant's wind up.
.

[JollyElm]

My most tantalizing Wiffle Ball pitch was the eponymic 'Louie,' named after Tiant, where in mid wind-up I'd fully twist my body so that my back was facing the batter...then after a short timing-interrupting hesitation, explode out of it and drop a sweeping curve right off the table from his head to the ground way off the outside of the plate.
Good times!!

[jingram058]

So many deserving names submitted in this thread, IMO. If any of them were to actually get in, it would go a long way to restoring my faith that these selection committees truly are making the right decisions. Some of the recent year's selections would appear to be lesser deserving than some of these names. In my opinion.

[G1911]

There are several names I would vote for and think fit to induct, but they are guys I think are the "should be in" side of the line, but only barely. The big obvious holes in this era category are still ineligible to be inducted as I understand it. Jim Creighton, Doc Adams, Ross Barnes are the people who should obviously be in but are not. Cooperstown's endorsement of a blatantly false lie about the origins of the game sure didn't help genuine research into the early days and development. Adams belongs as a pioneer, Creighton for being the one who turned the game primarily into a contest between batter and pitcher instead of batter and fielders, and Barnes was the first professional superstar who is kept out because he played in only 9 seasons of what we today consider 'major league'. While the 10 year playing cutoff makes a lot of sense for modernity, it really doesn't to the initial development of the game and to the amateur era.

I would forgive the Baines corrupt farce if they put in one of these clearly deserving candidates that nobody seems to think do not belong, but just do not care about honoring the long dead who don't have a lobbying campaign.

[Kutcher55]

Originally Posted by SmokyBurgess

Curt Flood.

Yes! And Luis Tiant.

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by G1911

There are several names I would vote for and think fit to induct, but they are guys I think are the "should be in" side of the line, but only barely. The big obvious holes in this era category are still ineligible to be inducted as I understand it. Jim Creighton, Doc Adams, Ross Barnes are the people who should obviously be in but are not. Cooperstown's endorsement of a blatantly false lie about the origins of the game sure didn't help genuine research into the early days and development. Adams belongs as a pioneer, Creighton for being the one who turned the game primarily into a contest between batter and pitcher instead of batter and fielders, and Barnes was the first professional superstar who is kept out because he played in only 9 seasons of what we today consider 'major league'. While the 10 year playing cutoff makes a lot of sense for modernity, it really doesn't to the initial development of the game and to the amateur era.

I would forgive the Baines corrupt farce if they put in one of these clearly deserving candidates that nobody seems to think do not belong, but just do not care about honoring the long dead who don't have a lobbying campaign.

+1