Harrison Butker graduation speech

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't know the agenda, stated or unstated, of every "Christian right" group, for example, but my concern extends beyond groups to individuals especially prominent ones, whether or not they have the power or the intent to actually promote legislation. Acceptance and an end to prejudice are a matter of hearts and minds, not just law. Leaders who send that message, celebrities who send that message, parents who teach that message, going to perpetuate it IMO.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't know the agenda, stated or unstated, of every "Christian right" group, for example, but my concern extends beyond groups to individuals especially prominent ones, whether or not they have the power or the intent to actually promote legislation. Acceptance and an end to prejudice are a matter of hearts and minds, not just law.

Exactly - this does not exist. There is no discernible real movement with any significant support to do anything to the gays beyond the horror of disagreeing with their lifestyle choices, as Butker did. No other group is immune from experiencing hurt feelings and dissent. There is no actual problem we can identify, and the obvious actual threat to gays we do not want to talk about.

We can throw out as many isms as we want, the feelings of a homosexual are not paramount to the speech of someone who does not support homosexuality. A right to free expression and speech is held by all; a right to never encounter dissent is held by none. An argument that a leftist view should not be expressed or held because it hurts the feelings and 'emotional health' of some conservatives would be immediately rejected, mocked and laughed at. This is just silly political theater, and not an actual problem. There is no right the gays do not have that everyone else does. There is no actual attack from Catholicism on them. There is merely dissent, and the desire to suppress that dissent.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Exactly - this does not exist. There is no discernible real movement with any significant support to do anything to the gays beyond the horror of disagreeing with their lifestyle choices, as Butker did. No other group is immune from experiencing hurt feelings and dissent. There is no actual problem we can identify, and the obvious actual threat to gays we do not want to talk about.

We can throw out as many isms as we want, the feelings of a homosexual are not paramount to the speech of someone who does not support homosexuality. A right to free expression and speech is held by all; a right to never encounter dissent is held by none. An argument that a leftist view should not be expressed or held because it hurts the feelings and 'emotional health' of some conservatives would be immediately rejected, mocked and laughed at. This is just silly political theater, and not an actual problem. There is no right the gays do not have that everyone else does. There is no actual attack from Catholicism on them. There is merely dissent, and the desire to suppress that dissent.

As I posted before, I am not suggesting any prior restraint on anyone's speech. That doesn't mean I cannot object after the fact. And if people use their celebrity stature to make speeches advocating that being gay is a "deadly sin," I do and will object.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As I posted before, I am not suggesting any prior restraint on anyone's speech. That doesn't mean I cannot object after the fact. And if people use their celebrity stature to make speeches advocating that being gay is a "deadly sin," I do and will object.

Exactly. You may say as you like, under the same right that lets me say that this is inconsequential dissent and there are far, far, far worse major religions that do actually bad things to these people instead of just disagree with what you like.

[Peter_Spaeth]

We agree on your second point but disagree on your first (inconsequential dissent).