Final UPDATE. PSA Guarantee on a doctored card - Actual good news this time

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Yes, of course. To put it in perspective, there were 80 cards submitted to PSA in the batch that included the 54T Mays. PSA rejected 20 of those as altered, trimmed or undersized, but they graded the other 60. So there are 59 other cards left from that batch that were probably worked on, and could also be subject to PSA's guarantee.

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You would think with that high a percentage clearly altered, and probably from a suspect submitter, they would just reject the whole sub on principle.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You would think with that high a percentage clearly altered, and probably from a suspect submitter, they would just reject the whole sub on principle.

Yes, wouldn't you? And not only on principle but from a business sense, too. They will probably pay Nicolo more for his altered Mays card than the total fees they received from the 60 cards they graded.

And they have 59 more potential settlements down the road. They are going to need to dig in even deeper going forward.

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Yes, wouldn't you? And not only on principle but from a business sense, too. They will probably pay Nicolo more for his altered Mays card than the total fees they received from the 60 cards they graded.

And they have 59 more potential settlements down the road. They are going to need to dig in even deeper going forward.

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Very few people, I think, have the resources and staying power to actually litigate these claims. I think PSA just selectively pays out but the economics of letting card doctors submit outweigh the guarantee expense probably by a ton.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Very few people, I think, have the resources and staying power to actually litigate these claims. I think PSA just selectively pays out but the economics of letting card doctors submit outweigh the guarantee expense probably by a ton.

That's bone-chilling to think about. If the volume of submissions from card doctors was so significant that PSA catered to their business, there would be a ridiculous amount of exposure out there they need to cover up. And I said "if".

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

That's bone-chilling to think about. If the volume of submissions from card doctors was so significant that PSA catered to their business, there would be a ridiculous amount of exposure out there they need to cover up. And I said "if".

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I have my opinions. I think BODA's work is the tip of the iceberg. Just my opinion. It is further my opinion that at least a certain segment of this hobby has been dominated by card doctors and their facilitators for many years.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have my opinions. I think BODA's work is the tip of the iceberg. Just my opinion. It is further my opinion that at least a certain segment of this hobby has been dominated by card doctors and their facilitators for many years.

I share the same sentiment. It's a business plan these days. Of course it's all a Billion Dollar Fraud.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I share the same sentiment. It's a business plan these days. Of course it's all a Billion Dollar Fraud.

Seems like a bad business plan, in retrospect. You collected $100 on a card that now has $100,000 potential liability to you. You could be right 99.9% of the time and still lose.

If PSA is concerned about it, though, they are not acting like it. Their president is out stumping about how conscientious they need to be with their grading, because their guarantee is behind it.

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[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

That's bone-chilling to think about. If the volume of submissions from card doctors was so significant that PSA catered to their business, there would be a ridiculous amount of exposure out there they need to cover up. And I said "if".

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They definitely did. The majority of submitters in the early days were from card doctors. PSA built their entire business off of it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

They definitely did. The majority of submitters in the early days were from card doctors. PSA built their entire business off of it.

The irony is so rich.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Snowman

They definitely did. The majority of submitters in the early days were from card doctors. PSA built their entire business off of it.

Rather than just fixing up cards with good eye appeal and resubmitting?

I've seen some dumb posts from your keyboard, but this one has to be tops.

Thought you were leaving??? No such luck. Must be a lonley existence

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Very few people, I think, have the resources and staying power to actually litigate these claims. I think PSA just selectively pays out but the economics of letting card doctors submit outweigh the guarantee expense probably by a ton.

Most people don't realize the implications of what they're calling for. They also don't understand the scope of the problem. If PSA ends up having to pay out on even 1% of the claims that people are calling for, then PSA would just get rid of their guarantee program altogether, otherwise they'd be forced to close the doors. Then what? Where do we go from there? The other grading companies can't detect this stuff either. And they don't have guarantees anyhow.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Most people don't realize the implications of what they're calling for. They also don't understand the scope of the problem. If PSA ends up having to pay out on even 1% of the claims that people are calling for, then PSA would just get rid of their guarantee program altogether, otherwise they'd be forced to close the doors. Then what? Where do we go from there? The other grading companies can't detect this stuff either. And they don't have guarantees anyhow.

Yeah, but do you think if they repudiated their guarantee, they would still be able to stay in business? And it's a serious question, I want to know what you think. You're their customer, not me.

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[raulus]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Yeah, but do you think if they repudiated their guarantee, they would still be able to stay in business? And it's a serious question, I want to know what you think. You're their customer, not me.

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SGC doesn’t seem to have suffered any negative repercussions when they quietly decided to drop their guarantee.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

SGC doesn’t seem to have suffered any negative repercussions when they quietly decided to drop their guarantee.

Nobody cares.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Yeah, but do you think if they repudiated their guarantee, they would still be able to stay in business? And it's a serious question, I want to know what you think. You're their customer, not me.

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I think if PSA were to drop their guarantee tomorrow, it wouldn't affect them at all. Literally not one bit. And I'm usually hesitant about claims like that because I know how much a very small change in one variable can impact your bottom line (that's largely what statistical modeling is all about).

SGC dropped their guarantee and pentupled their business shortly after despite their biggest competitor proudly flaunting theirs. And buyers clearly don't care, as cards in SGC holders have set new records multiple times since then.

Ultimately, it's just not something the market cares enough about. They care more about hammer prices, accurate grades, and customer experience. Hence SGC has been chipping away at PSA's lead for the past few years.

Nobody looks at two of the same card, one in a PSA holder and one in an SGC holder and then says to themselves that they'd rather have the PSA because of the guarantee. They will buy whichever one looks better and is the better deal. Every time. And even if they have identical eye appeal and are the same price, they're still not using the guarantee as the tie breaker.