Negro League Stats included in official MLB records

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Guess it helped this card. Wow.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/375448380819

I was watching that one as well. Holders of Josh Gibson's 1976 Shakey's Pizza card look to have hit a windfall as well.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

That's just silly. A card released three decades after a player's passing should not carry such value. I am not a fan of autograph/relic cards, but those make a bit more sense to carry value if issued posthumously. There's (at least supposed to be) something contemporaneous to the player housed within.

I understand that there are players featured in the set for whom this was their first ever card release. To that extent, it makes sense why people would want an example to fill a void. But it's a novelty set, issued in the first wave of the rebirth of card collecting. This wasn't even Gibson's first card. The Toleteros was also a posthumous release, but the value there makes more sense. Why the sudden boom in price for a 1970's issue that was basically created for card collectors? Just because many collectors may not be able to afford the Toleteros, then this card automatically escalates in price?

If I owned the Gibson, sure, I'd admit to a bit of hypocrisy as I was cashing in!

Also, can somebody please enlighten me as to if this set carried more than a nominal value even into the 1990's? I have foggy memories of them being worth next to nothing, but perhaps my mind is playing tricks on me.

[Schlesinj]

“We became serious about creating the database in 2000. I reached out to about 30 researchers across the country to access newspapers that I did not have access to. So, after five years, we were able to establish a very solid database of capturing Negro League stats,” he said. “We had data from more than 450 newspapers. There’s no app, there’s no software that can scan a box score, that will populate a spreadsheet or a database.

Started with a 2000 $250k donation.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Just because many collectors may not be able to afford the Toleteros, then this card automatically escalates in price?

Yes. Economists call it the "substitution effect" [the change in demand for a good as a result of a change in the relative price of the good compared to that of other substitute goods]. Toleteros are rare and very expensive; many collectors want to have something representing the Negro League greats in their collections; I did, which is why I picked up a bunch of cards from the Laughlin set as the earliest NL set I could afford. Another example would be Cool Papa Bell's 1976 self-issued set. Ditto some of the 1970s PCs.

Oh, some cards:






Guess I better have my Gibson slabbed...

[insidethewrapper]

60 games for a season is not enough to judge a player , as the top players rise to the top in a 162 schedule as well as teams. Right now we are at the 60 game mark this year and Profar is 2nd in batting average and first in OBP. If he was in the Negro leagues he may be considered for the HOF.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Adam,

Certainly, and I understand it, but more along the lines of someone picking up a 56T Mantle because the '52 is out of their reach. The value of the '56 being period to Mick's career makes that logical to me.

We don't have that option with Gibson, but because the Laughlin was issued so much later, that is what perplexes me. I understand it was a limited print run, which is of course tantalizing to a broad collector base, but still. The current value of these goes hand in hand with the retroactive proclamation that the players, in fact, are Major Leaguers. Those on one side of the argument will never understand; those on the other will never understand why they will never understand!

[Exhibitman]

Gibson has no career-contemporary cards except that insane postcard. Even the Toleteros is a tribute card. So anything you get is gonna be a tribute card. I'm just explaining my logic and that of many others who collect the 'collector' issues of the 1970s in lieu of impossibly rare and expensive older cards of NL players. You do what you can do.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I was watching that one as well. Holders of Josh Gibson's 1976 Shakey's Pizza card look to have hit a windfall as well.

Who knew?

[vintagerookies51]

The only valid point people have here are the possible inaccuracy of stats from the Negro Leagues. Trying to compare this to adding Japan league stats is a joke. That league was across the world. The Negro Leagues would have played in the same league if segregation didn't exist.

Negro League players won something like 10 NL MVPs in their first 13 years they were allowed to play. Maybe the MLB had more depth, but the best Negro Leagues players were always as good as the best MLB players. Can you imagine if players like Willie Mays and Hank Aaron had been whitewashed from history like Josh Gibson, Cool Papa Bell, and Oscar Charleston? IMO this is a great move by the MLB to recognize some of baseball's all-time greats that were partially forgotten about due to past injustices.

[Tripredacus]

This is completely messed up. How in the world is Lyman Bostick able to be #3 in single season batting average with only 84 PA?
https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...g_season.shtml

If they are going to change the PA requirements, they should refactor everyone else, because I bet that they only change the PA requirements for the new players and the old players still are stuck with that 3.1PA/G requirement.

I like how they have updated WAR for the teams tho, I wish they'd do it for minor leagues too.

[Beercan collector]

Originally Posted by Tripredacus

This is completely messed up. How in the world is Lyman Bostick able to be #3 in single season batting average with only 84 PA?
https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...g_season.shtml

If they are going to change the PA requirements, they should refactor everyone else, because I bet that they only change the PA requirements for the new players and the old players still are stuck with that 3.1PA/G requirement.

I like how they have updated WAR for the teams tho, I wish they'd do it for minor leagues too.

Ross Barnes 1876 season qualifies but his 1872 , 1873 do not ?

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

Ross Barnes 1876 season qualifies but his 1872 , 1873 do not ?

I think Baseball Reference counts/acknowledges the National Association, where Ross Barnes played in 1872 and 1973, but MLB does not. Seems like MLB should count NA.