It's Closing Night of a Great Vintage Auction

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If you think there's no chance of influencing the outcome why are you even having the conversation?

We've already established the outcome regarding the two of us, either he is willing to pay more than me or he isn't. That would have no material effect on the ultimate sales price the seller receives.

Am I the only one who has hobby conversations with friends like this?

Because I certainly don't feel like some criminal mastermind who is having any effect on the outcome of prices except when I do win I usually have to overpay for the honor of adding a card to my meager collection on a limited budget.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

We've already established the outcome regarding the two of us, either he is willing to pay more than me or he isn't. That would have no material effect on the ultimate sales price the seller receives.

Am I the only one who has hobby conversations with friends like this?

Because I certainly don't feel like some criminal mastermind who is having any effect on the outcome of prices except when I do win I usually have to overpay for the honor of adding a card to my meager collection on a limited budget.

If your friend bids $2,500 and you were willing to pay $2,000 but don’t bid, and it sells for $1,500, your decision cost the seller $500. That’s how it could cost the seller.

The real crime is not a collusive conspiracy but the chance that this could lower a price. Can’t have anything happen, regardless of tiny insignificance, that goes against investors profiting

[JollyElm]

694. Circumbenevolent
Showing kindness toward a like-minded fellow collector by purposely not bidding in an auction he’s keen on winning, to avoid unnecessarily running up the price in a bidding war and affecting his chance of carrying the day.

See also: Collegial Collusion - a more cynical term for this type of regular occurrence.

See also: Bro-Codependency - the unwritten courtesy of stepping aside, because you know if the roles were reversed, your collecting buddy would do the same for you.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by G1911

If your friend bids $2,500 and you were willing to pay $2,000 but don’t bid, and it sells for $1,500, your decision cost the seller $500. That’s how it could cost the seller.

The real crime is not a collusive conspiracy but the chance that this could lower a price. Can’t have anything happen, regardless of tiny insignificance, that goes against investors profiting

Except my friend and I are communicating on auction night, the card wouldn't sell for 1500 because I would jump in up to 2000, now if my friend wanted to bid 2100 then I'm out. Also, auction nights are very organic and multiple things affect prices night of. Perhaps I overpay on my T-card and can't afford to bid 2k on the E-card, in that case the Seller isn't going to get my 2k bid, or maybe I'm in low on the T-card and am willing to go 2500 on the E-card, then I'll have that discussion with my friend at the time. Or maybe the seller is listing an obscure set that only six guys collect and he or the AH decided to flood the market that night. I guarantee the only people happy when that happens are the 6 guys who collect those cards.

A lot can happen night of, I've sold lots of cards at auction and been very happy with the results, some good some bad but that's how auctions work. I've also had miscommunication with fellow hobbyists which can be awkward but you try to make the best of those situations.

Also the seller can put a floor bid in if he wants a minimum.

Maybe I'm living in a parallel universe here, do you guys never discuss auctions with each other?

Maybe I'm the outlier but that just seems strange to me, half the fun of this hobby is making friends, discussing cards, and the anticipation of adding to our collections. I can't imagine sitting isolated in a self imposed cubicle with head phones on for 3 weeks because I can't discuss cards in auction with hobby friends.

IMHO if that's the case, you're doing it wrong, or maybe I am, but I guarantee I'm having more enjoyment of our hobby.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Except my friend and I are communicating on auction night, the card wouldn't sell for 1500 because I would jump in up to 2000, now if my friend wanted to bid 2100 then I'm out. Also, auction nights are very organic and multiple things affect prices night of. Perhaps I overpay on my T-card and can't afford to bid 2k on the E-card, in that case the Seller isn't going to get my 2k bid, or maybe I'm in low on the T-card and am willing to go 2500 on the E-card, then I'll have that discussion with my friend at the time. Or maybe the seller is listing an obscure set that only six guys collect and he or the AH decided to flood the market that night. I guarantee the only people happy when that happens are the 6 guys who collect those cards.

A lot can happen night of, I've sold lots of cards at auction and been very happy with the results, some good some bad but that's how auctions work. I've also had miscommunication with fellow hobbyists which can be awkward but you try to make the best of those situations.

Also the seller can put a floor bid in if he wants a minimum.

Maybe I'm living in a parallel universe here, do you guys never discuss auctions with each other?

Maybe I'm the outlier but that just seems strange to me, half the fun of this hobby is making friends, discussing cards, and the anticipation of adding to our collections. I can't imagine sitting isolated in a self imposed cubicle with head phones on for 3 weeks because I can't discuss cards in auction with hobby friends.

IMHO if that's the case, you're doing it wrong, or maybe I am, but I guarantee I'm having more enjoyment of our hobby.

I said in post 15 I talk about them and “yes” is the majority vote in the poll right now.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

We've already established the outcome regarding the two of us, either he is willing to pay more than me or he isn't. That would have no material effect on the ultimate sales price the seller receives.

Am I the only one who has hobby conversations with friends like this?

Because I certainly don't feel like some criminal mastermind who is having any effect on the outcome of prices except when I do win I usually have to overpay for the honor of adding a card to my meager collection on a limited budget.

Then why in post 2 were you saying how bad it was for friends to bid against each other, if now you're saying it wouldn't matter?

As you put it, Nothing worse than two friends running each other up if it can be avoided.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Then why in post 2 were you saying how bad it was for friends to bid against each other, if now you're saying it wouldn't matter?

Quite frankly I wouldn't want to cost my hobby friends one penny more than the already outrageous prices we are paying for little pictures of men on cardboard.

So if there's an item that you and I like but you want it more I'm going to stand aside out of respect for our friendship, unless I want it more than you and am willing to pay the freight.

You call it collusion, I get that your lawyer brain is kicking in, but I don't see it that way. I've been on the other side and enjoyed auction night where a rare card I owned went for dirt cheap and congratulated the winner in my mind. I've also had cards sell for more than I ever expected and thought how lucky I was that two drunk guys had a bidding war late at night. To me that's the fun of our hobby. Yes, this stuff is expensive but at the end of the day, to me, it's just a vehicle to meet some pretty awesome people and have some fun putting collections together.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Quite frankly I wouldn't want to cost my hobby friends one penny more than the already outrageous prices we are paying for little pictures of men on cardboard.

So if there's an item that you and I like but you want it more I'm going to stand aside out of respect for our friendship, unless I want it more than you and am willing to pay the freight.

You call it collusion, I get that your lawyer brain is kicking in, but I don't see it that way. I've been on the other side and enjoyed auction night where a rare card I owned went for dirt cheap and congratulated the winner in my mind. I've also had cards sell for more than I ever expected and thought how lucky I was that two drunk guys had a bidding war late at night. To me that's the fun of our hobby. Yes, this stuff is expensive but at the end of the day, to me, it's just a vehicle to meet some pretty awesome people and have some fun putting collections together.

This is a contradiction to your claim in 24 that you do NOT mean this and that you WOULD bid.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by G1911

This is a contradiction to your claim in 24 that you do NOT mean this and that you WOULD bid.

Yes, I completely reserve the right to change my mind on auction night while I'm comunicating with my auction friends.
I'm curious what your protocol is on auction night with your friends. No judgement, everybody does it different, I just thought more folks did it like me but maybe I'm mistaken.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Yes, I completely reserve the right to change my mind on auction night while I'm comunicating with my auction friends.
I'm curious what your protocol is on auction night with your friends. No judgement, everybody does it different, I just thought more folks did it like me but maybe I'm mistaken.

As I said in 15 and 25, I talk about them. As I said in 25, "Yes" is a majority in the poll right now. You do not have a minority view.

I am saying you are clearly contradicting yourself and not being honest in one of the directly contradictory claims. If a friend wants a card more than I do I'll just let them have it and not bid, but don't claim directly opposite things to refute different people's arguments.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by G1911

As I said in 15 and 25, I talk about them. As I said in 25, "Yes" is a majority in the poll right now. You do not have a minority view.

I am saying you are clearly contradicting yourself and not being honest in one of the directly contradictory claims. If a friend wants a card more than I do I'll just let them have it and not bid, but don't claim directly opposite things to refute different people's arguments.

Okay, but what do you do if you and your friend want the same card? How does that conversation go?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Quite frankly I wouldn't want to cost my hobby friends one penny more than the already outrageous prices we are paying for little pictures of men on cardboard.

So if there's an item that you and I like but you want it more I'm going to stand aside out of respect for our friendship, unless I want it more than you and am willing to pay the freight.

You call it collusion, I get that your lawyer brain is kicking in, but I don't see it that way. I've been on the other side and enjoyed auction night where a rare card I owned went for dirt cheap and congratulated the winner in my mind. I've also had cards sell for more than I ever expected and thought how lucky I was that two drunk guys had a bidding war late at night. To me that's the fun of our hobby. Yes, this stuff is expensive but at the end of the day, to me, it's just a vehicle to meet some pretty awesome people and have some fun putting collections together.

My lawyer brain is only kicking in because you changed your tune from it's a good thing and bidding against a friend is the worst thing in the world to it has no consequence, after it was pointed out it could be considered problematic. Anyhow, in the scheme of things it's a blip. Carry on.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My lawyer brain is only kicking in because you changed your tune from it's a good thing and bidding against a friend is the worst thing in the world to it has no consequence, after it was pointed out it could be considered problematic. Anyhow, in the scheme of things it's a blip. Carry on.

Not at all, I wouldn't want to run you up out of respect for our relationship, if, on auction night with all the extenuating circumstances that happen on auction nights and I communicated with you that I was going higher I would expect the same respect.

I have to admit I'm a little befuddled here, what this thread has taught me is to be grateful for the hobby friends that I enjoy interacting with.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Not at all, I wouldn't want to run you up out of respect for our relationship, if, on auction night with all the extenuating circumstances that happen on auction nights and I communicated with you that I was going higher I would expect the same respect.

I have to admit I'm a little befuddled here, what this thread has taught me is to be grateful for the hobby friends that I enjoy interacting with.

How do you think the consignor would view it, if two friends deciding which one should bid out of "respect" kept his realized price down?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How do you think the consignor would view it, if two friends deciding which one should bid out of "respect" kept his realized price down?

Like I said previously, I've been that consignor and have been happy someone got a good deal.

Do you buy at auction?