It's Closing Night of a Great Vintage Auction

Casey2296 · #1 06-10-2024, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Let me give you a realistic scenario though. Suppose auction house X has 4 cards up for auction from the same set that the top two registry guys need and would kill for. These two guys are going to go much higher than anyone else. Suppose they get together and decide, rather than killing each other, you take two, I'll take two, and we won't bid on the other two. Legit?

100 percent legit. Do you think the seller won't be happy with the results?
After all these guys are registry whores and will pay 100k for a 1969 Jackson 10.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 06-10-2024, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casey2296

100 percent legit. Do you think the seller won't be happy with the results?
After all these guys are registry whores and will pay 100k for a 1969 Jackson 10.

But the whole point is they won't have to pay it if their principal competitor is not participating. Do you not see that? My example is absolutely collusion/price fixing. It has cost the consignor, almost certainly, huge amounts of money.

Casey2296 · #3 06-10-2024, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

But the whole point is they won't have to pay it if their principal competitor is not participating. Do you not see that? My example is absolutely collusion/price fixing. It has cost the consignor, almost certainly, huge amounts of money.

I'll give you an example from my world..
Johnny Evers Red Croft back in a 6.

Everybody on this sub knows DJ is making a Red Crofts run, I would love to add a Red Crofts back to my collection.

Ryan consigned his to an AH and that gave DJ an opportunity to add to his run.
Now I've only interacted with DJ a few times but I laid off that card because it belongs in his collection. I never contacted him but in my mind it was the right thing to do and I'm happy he got the card.

Was Ryan happy with the results , don't know you'd have to ask him.

Did I collude with DJ or did I stand down for a fellow Net54 collector who I respect and know how important that card was to him?

Peter_Spaeth · #4 06-10-2024, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I'll give you an example from my world..
Johnny Evers Red Croft back in a 6.

Everybody on this sub knows DJ is making a Red Crofts run, I would love to add a Red Crofts back to my collection.

Ryan consigned his to an AH and that gave DJ an opportunity to add to his run.
Now I've only interacted with DJ a few times but I laid off that card because it belongs in his collection. I never contacted him but in my mind it was the right thing to do and I'm happy he got the card.

Was Ryan happy with the results , don't know you'd have to ask him.

Did I collude with DJ or did I stand down for a fellow Net54 collector who I respect and know how important that card was to him?

If you had no interaction with him then of course you did not collude. If you and he agreed that you would not bid against him, that would be collusion. Collusion takes two.

Casey2296 · #5 06-10-2024, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If you had no interaction with him then of course you did not collude. If you and he agreed that you would not bid against him, that would be collusion. Collusion takes two.

I guess that's the difference, I care more about the collectors here and their hobby aspirations.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 06-10-2024, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I guess that's the difference, I care more about the collectors here and their hobby aspirations.

Nothing wrong with that. In antitrust cases the critical question often is whether conduct is unilateral or the product of an agreement.

Casey2296 · #7 06-10-2024, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nothing wrong with that. In antitrust cases the critical question often is whether conduct is unilateral or the product of an agreement.

And I would posit that my conduct produces greater happiness for our collecting community.

Yoda · #8 06-11-2024, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casey2296

100 percent legit. Do you think the seller won't be happy with the results?
After all these guys are registry whores and will pay 100k for a 1969 Jackson 10.

Registry whores indeed. Elm, this one is right up your alley.

Leon · #9 06-11-2024, 03:09 PM

Interestingly, no and yes, are virtually tied right now.

.

Rhotchkiss · #10 06-12-2024, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

Interestingly, no and yes, are virtually tied right now.

.

I wonder how many people who voted actually buy cards in auctions/from auction houses.

raulus · #11 06-12-2024, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I wonder how many people who voted actually buy cards in auctions/from auction houses.

You worried that we're all just keyboard warriors who love to pontificate without actually ever having experienced the activity in question?

I would guess that most people here have bought at least a card or two at auction. Particularly if you're willing to cast a wide net and include eBay and all of the multiplicity of the various AHs. And especially if you're willing to let us look backwards for the last few decades, and include even small purchases.

But maybe I'm just guessing high.

parkplace33 · #12 06-12-2024, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulus

You worried that we're all just keyboard warriors who love to pontificate without actually ever having experienced the activity in question?

I would guess that most people here have bought at least a card or two at auction. Particularly if you're willing to cast a wide net and include eBay and all of the multiplicity of the various AHs. And especially if you're willing to let us look backwards for the last few decades, and include even small purchases.

But maybe I'm just guessing high.

I believe a large majority of these group buys cards/consign cards in AHs. Or at least bids in AHs.

AHs drive the card market. They drive VCP, they drive interest, they drive everything.

Rhotchkiss · #13 06-12-2024, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulus

You worried that we're all just keyboard warriors who love to pontificate without actually ever having experienced the activity in question?.

I am not worried. Nor do I mean �all�. But otherwise, a hard yes.

gunboat82 · #14 06-12-2024, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I am not worried. Nor do I mean �all�. But otherwise, a hard yes.

Maybe Leon could create a separate poll for high-rollers? The sample will be small, but it'll help cull out the people whose opinions don't matter.

View Poll Results: Do you tell them?
Yes	44	37.61%
No	41	35.04%
Maybe	21	17.95%
It all depends (please clarify as a post)	11	9.40%
Voters: 117. You may not vote on this poll

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