Poll - Greatest Living Player

Andrew1975 · #1 06-21-2024, 08:26 AM

Bonds

packs · #2 06-21-2024, 08:44 AM

Sincere question for people who pick Bonds; do you think Bonds was better than Willie Mays too? If the answer is yes, then wouldn't he have been the greatest living player this whole time?

My point is that stats are stats and you can use stats to discuss Bonds, but if you do, then how do you factor Mays ahead of him at all?

ejharrington · #3 06-21-2024, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Sincere question for people who pick Bonds; do you think Bonds was better than Willie Mays too? If the answer is yes, then wouldn't he have been the greatest living player this whole time?

My point is that stats are stats and you can use stats to discuss Bonds, but if you do, then how do you factor Mays ahead of him at all?

Yes, I rank the all time top 3 as Ruth, Bonds, Mays

bnorth · #4 06-21-2024, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Sincere question for people who pick Bonds; do you think Bonds was better than Willie Mays too? If the answer is yes, then wouldn't he have been the greatest living player this whole time?

My point is that stats are stats and you can use stats to discuss Bonds, but if you do, then how do you factor Mays ahead of him at all?

Mays was not really the best when he passed. Barry was better but it looks better to have an old guy have the spot than someone many hate. I would have also had Hank Aaron ahead of Willie while he was alive. I do not think Willie was ever the best living player.

Hankphenom · #5 06-21-2024, 09:34 AM

I know this doesn't make a lot of sense, but while you still can I think you have to give an edge to "The Greatest of the Oldest Surviving Generation" or some such, and to me, with Willie gone, that would be Koufax. As an aside, Koufax is the last surviving player talked about on Larry Ritter's "Glory of Their Times" tapes recorded in the early 1960s, with several of the old-timers being interviewed opining that he would have been great in their time, too.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 06-21-2024, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I know this doesn't make a lot of sense, but while you still can I think you have to give an edge to "The Greatest of the Oldest Surviving Generation" or some such, and to me, with Willie gone, that would be Koufax. As an aside, Koufax is the last surviving player talked about on Larry Ritter's "Glory of Their Times" tapes recorded in the early 1960s, with several of the old-timers being interviewed opining that he would have been great in their time, too.

I get that point. It does have an elder statesman feel to it.

G1911 · #7 06-21-2024, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Sincere question for people who pick Bonds; do you think Bonds was better than Willie Mays too? If the answer is yes, then wouldn't he have been the greatest living player this whole time?

My point is that stats are stats and you can use stats to discuss Bonds, but if you do, then how do you factor Mays ahead of him at all?

Yes, yes, N/A.

oldjudge · #8 06-21-2024, 09:29 AM

My vote is Aaron Judge. I think, for starters, that he is better than Ohtani.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #9 06-21-2024, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

My vote is Aaron Judge. I think, for starters, that he is better than Ohtani.

Ohtani has way more to accomplish before he can begin to enter the conversation. I don't even want to hear his name in this discussion. We'll talk in 20 years. Trout has garnered a whopping single vote, and he's farther on his way than any other current player.

CobbSpikedMe · #10 06-22-2024, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

My vote is Aaron Judge. I think, for starters, that he is better than Ohtani.

I also voted other and had Judge as the greatest living player now. I don't care for Ohtani at all to be honest. I feel he is quite overrated currently. He's very good, I just think he's overrated by announcers and baseball groups I follow.

.

Peter_Spaeth · #11 06-22-2024, 06:32 PM

You would rank Aaron Judge over, for example, Pujols and Griffey?

CobbSpikedMe · #12 06-22-2024, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You would rank Aaron Judge over, for example, Pujols and Griffey?

Yes. He still has a lot of time to play, but right now I think he is the best living player and when his career is over, he will be much better that Pujols or Griffey.

.

z28jd · #13 06-21-2024, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Sincere question for people who pick Bonds; do you think Bonds was better than Willie Mays too? If the answer is yes, then wouldn't he have been the greatest living player this whole time?

My point is that stats are stats and you can use stats to discuss Bonds, but if you do, then how do you factor Mays ahead of him at all?

My top three all-time right now are Ruth, Williams, Mays in that order.

So to me, Mays has been the greatest since Williams passed away in 2002. In between Ruth passing away in 1948 and Williams doing enough to move up to the greatest (while still active), I think Cobb would have been the greatest for a time. I'd have to look at Williams over the years to see when I thought he passed Cobb, who died in 1961 after Williams retired.

I have never figured out my top list after the top three, but I'd like to sit down one day and just deep dive into it. Bonds could be fourth, but I think Walter Johnson has a good case for the spot.

Al C.risafulli · #14 06-21-2024, 12:47 PM

For the record I waffle back and forth and forth between Ruth, Mays and Bonds for greatest all-time, but usually wind up with Mays as #3 for the sole reason that Ruth and Bonds were SO much better than their peers when they played than Mays was. So I usually land Ruth/Bonds/Mays/Charleston/Aaron for position players, and if I try and add pitchers my brain explodes and I stop thinking about it.

-Al

robw1959 · #15 06-22-2024, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

For the record I waffle back and forth and forth between Ruth, Mays and Bonds for greatest all-time, but usually wind up with Mays as #3 for the sole reason that Ruth and Bonds were SO much better than their peers when they played than Mays was. So I usually land Ruth/Bonds/Mays/Charleston/Aaron for position players, and if I try and add pitchers my brain explodes and I stop thinking about it.

-Al

It's a good point, but from what I have read, nobody ever filled stadiums like the great Willie Mays. I mean wherever he went, there were constant attendance records. Would people have flocked in such numbers to watch somebody who was just slightly better than his peers? Of course not. They wanted to see that 5-tool greatness that Mays harnessed probably better than anyone else because he could beat other teams in so many ways.

Exhibitman · #16 06-26-2024, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

For the record I waffle back and forth and forth between Ruth, Mays and Bonds for greatest all-time, but usually wind up with Mays as #3 for the sole reason that Ruth and Bonds were SO much better than their peers when they played than Mays was. So I usually land Ruth/Bonds/Mays/Charleston/Aaron for position players, and if I try and add pitchers my brain explodes and I stop thinking about it.

-Al

Me too, except I rate them Ruth-Bonds-Mays-Aaron. Maybe I am biased from having this card since 1973:

Or I just like every excuse I can get to show a childhood obsession card.

As for pitchers, I go with either Clemens or Johnson.

SyrNy1960 · #17 06-26-2024, 06:37 PM

I feel like I�m in the twilight zone when I see Bonds name mentioned with Ruth-Mays-Aaron. Do people really not understand that Bonds cheated and his numbers are inflated due to PED use? UGH!

Carter08 · #18 06-26-2024, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SyrNy1960

I feel like I�m in the twilight zone when I see Bonds name mentioned with Ruth-Mays-Aaron. Do people really not understand that Bonds cheated and his numbers are inflated due to PED use? UGH!

Yes but many people go out of their way to shrug it off.

Beercan collector · #19 06-26-2024, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Me too, except I rate them Ruth-Bonds-Mays-Aaron. Maybe I am biased from having this card since 1973:

Or I just like every excuse I can get to show a childhood obsession card.

As for pitchers, I go with either Clemens or Johnson.

Man that�s a good card

G1911 · #20 06-26-2024, 07:42 PM

A reading of the posts will show that everyone appears to be well aware that Bonds used steroids from 1999 or 2000 through sometime between 2003 and 2007. It is not complete ignorance the issue even exists that is the debate.

darwinbulldog · #21 06-22-2024, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Sincere question for people who pick Bonds; do you think Bonds was better than Willie Mays too? If the answer is yes, then wouldn't he have been the greatest living player this whole time?

My point is that stats are stats and you can use stats to discuss Bonds, but if you do, then how do you factor Mays ahead of him at all?

Yes, Bonds is currently the greatest living player and already was last week and I guess technically at every point since he was born, but we didn't know it until 20 years ago.

Touch'EmAll · #22 06-22-2024, 02:41 PM

Overall, yeah, a lot of you like to point to black & white stats printed on a page, and that's ok. And yes, you do have to consider all of it. But the eye test does indeed count for a lot, at least to me. Nolan Ryan was on any given night was absolutely awesome. Greatness - you just can't deny some of what Ryan did and accomplished is the Greatest we have ever seen from a pitcher, and likely will ever see.

Peter_Spaeth · #23 06-22-2024, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

Overall, yeah, a lot of you like to point to black & white stats printed on a page, and that's ok. And yes, you do have to consider all of it. But the eye test does indeed count for a lot, at least to me. Nolan Ryan was on any given night was absolutely awesome. Greatness - you just can't deny some of what Ryan did and accomplished is the Greatest we have ever seen from a pitcher, and likely will ever see.

I don't see that at all, and yes I saw him many times. Seaver was a much better pitcher. I'd probably take Carlton over him. Certainly Clemens, Maddux, R Johnson, and Pedro.

jingram058 · #24 06-22-2024, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't see that at all, and yes I saw him many times. Seaver was a much better pitcher. I'd probably take Carlton over him. Certainly Clemens, Maddux, R Johnson, and Pedro.

You desperately need to get back into reality.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #25 06-22-2024, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't see that at all, and yes I saw him many times. Seaver was a much better pitcher. I'd probably take Carlton over him. Certainly Clemens, Maddux, R Johnson, and Pedro.

I guess I'll never understand such arguments. If they were better, then shouldn't their numbers show it? They each had nearly as long a tenure and all had better players behind them for longer, yet Nolan holds the records. Look how many championship clubs some of those guys played for, just jam-packed with stars and HOFers. Seems like they should have easily all hurled a dozen no-hitters, pitched 6000 Ks and won at least 400 games if the lowly Ryan could do what he did with his mostly piss-poor clubs.

Peter_Spaeth · #26 06-22-2024, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

I guess I'll never understand such arguments. If they were better, then shouldn't their numbers show it? They each had nearly as long a tenure and all had better players behind them for longer, yet Nolan holds the records. Look how many championship clubs some of those guys played for, just jam-packed with stars and HOFers. Seems like they should have easily all hurled a dozen no-hitters, pitched 6000 Ks and won at least 400 games if the lowly Ryan could do what he did with his mostly piss-poor clubs.

Their numbers DO show it, if you look at the more meaningful numbers, not just counting stats. For example
https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...h_career.shtml

Every pitcher I named is ahead of Ryan.

darwinbulldog · #27 06-22-2024, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

Overall, yeah, a lot of you like to point to black & white stats printed on a page, and that's ok. And yes, you do have to consider all of it. But the eye test does indeed count for a lot, at least to me. Nolan Ryan was on any given night was absolutely awesome. Greatness - you just can't deny some of what Ryan did and accomplished is the Greatest we have ever seen from a pitcher, and likely will ever see.

I watched Ryan many times and was impressed by how hard he threw, but I've seen plenty of better pitchers, both by stats and by the eye test. Kobe was one of the best to ever play in the NBA if you ignore every shot he missed, and Ryan was one of the best to ever pitch in MLB if you ignore every walk he issued.

Touch'EmAll · #28 06-22-2024, 05:23 PM

Please read my post. I did not say Ryan was the greatest pitcher. What I did say was that on any given night he was absolutely awesome and some of what Ryan did and accomplished is the greatest we have ever seen from a pitcher, and likely will ever see.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #29 06-22-2024, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I watched Ryan many times and was impressed by how hard he threw, but I've seen plenty of better pitchers, both by stats and by the eye test. Kobe was one of the best to ever play in the NBA if you ignore every shot he missed, and Ryan was one of the best to ever pitch in MLB if you ignore every walk he issued.

I would argue if the first half of Ryan's career was more like the second half he'd have a more impressive claim. While the strikeouts might have dropped from 383 to 301, but the walks dropped from 204 to 87. He was never a top control guy, but he was MUCH better. His K/bb ratio went from roughly 1.5 to 2.5 over that span, that's a HUGE difference

jingram058 · #30 06-22-2024, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Yes, Bonds is currently the greatest living player and already was last week and I guess technically at every point since he was born, but we didn't know it until 20 years ago.

Is he? Why isn't he in the HoF?

darwinbulldog · #31 06-22-2024, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jingram058

Is he? Why isn't he in the HoF?

Many of the voters believe that he used PEDs and that the other players on the ballot didn't and think that their beliefs about who used what when should count for more than how well the players played baseball.

View Poll Results: Who is the greatest living player today?
Ronald Acuna Jr	1	0.24%
Johnny Bench	16	3.85%
Mookie Betts	0	0%
Barry Bonds	116	27.88%
Steve Carlton	0	0%
Roger Clemens	2	0.48%
Ken Griifey Jr	38	9.13%
Rickey Henderson	27	6.49%
Randy Johnson	3	0.72%
Sandy Koufax	52	12.50%
Greg Maddux	7	1.68%
Pedro Martinez	5	1.20%
Shohei Ohtani	18	4.33%
Albert Pujols	16	3.85%
Cal Ripken Jr	5	1.20%
Alex Rodriguez	0	0%
Pete Rose	39	9.38%
Nolan Ryan	34	8.17%
Mike Schmidt	17	4.09%
Ichiro Suzuki	7	1.68%
Mike Trout	1	0.24%
Other	12	2.88%
Voters: 416. You may not vote on this poll

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