Bill Mastro and SCD Hobby Predictions

samosa4u · #1 07-03-2024, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiceDocter

I would pick �b� for me

Keith H. Thompson · #2 07-04-2024, 11:57 AM

again for my poor presentation of an obscure subject, at best Leon helped me with the picture, but there is only so much he can do.

I also confess that I did it because young collectors to the Hobby probably have negative thoughts re Bill, but he was really a force in the hobby, and his auctions were gold mines. Dealers and collectors, whose opinions I respect, tell me that he treated his partners badly, but I'm used to that on many facets of life.

samosa4u · #3 07-04-2024, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith H. Thompson

again for my poor presentation of an obscure subject, at best Leon helped me with the picture, but there is only so much he can do.

I also confess that I did it because young collectors to the Hobby probably have negative thoughts re Bill, but he was really a force in the hobby, and his auctions were gold mines. Dealers and collectors, whose opinions I respect, tell me that he treated his partners badly, but I'm used to that on many facets of life.

Send me a message and I'll help you put up a large scan here. I'm pretty sure a lot of people would like to read it.

G1911 · #4 07-04-2024, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith H. Thompson

I also confess that I did it because young collectors to the Hobby probably have negative thoughts re Bill, but he was really a force in the hobby, and his auctions were gold mines. Dealers and collectors, whose opinions I respect, tell me that he treated his partners badly, but I'm used to that on many facets of life.

Yeah I can't believe that young collectors have negative thoughts on a criminal fraudster who treaded people badly. That's just, uh, terrible. They need to be educated on how criminal fraudsters in the hobby are sometimes great because they sold expensive cards amidst all that criminal fraud.

oldjudge · #5 07-04-2024, 01:51 PM

Bill was a force in the hobby. He ran the first major sports auction and before that handled some of the top hobby pieces. I always had a good relationship with Bill and valued his friendship. He's done his time for his crimes and I wish him a long and happy life with his wonderful family going forward.

BioCRN · #6 07-04-2024, 02:12 PM

There's a lot of people in the hobby who prefer to remain on the outskirts of the hobby because of the people in the hobby.

I'm not a market mover or market definer. I'll never play in that realm even with a low-6-digit value collection and spare money to go bigger. Some people spend the value of my collection on a single auction, or single card. They're the makers and movers.

That said...

Since I was a young collector in the single-digits of age, I've received generous education/support/freebies from dealers + collectors. I've also been ripped off, lied to, and otherwise hustled by the peers of the ones being reasonable dealing with me.

More than that, I've experienced "both sides" playing me (or attempting) from the same person. I'm not talking about stuff like a dealer low-balling me or charging too much. I'm talking about legit bad stuff, dishonesty, and fraud.

There's more good than bad, but I've always been shocked at how many totally above the board dealers/collectors will tolerate fraud and out-classed hustling from their peers.

I think a lot of the legit good ones realize how much slime is in the hobby and accept it as part of the hobby, and your own due diligence needs to be applied to too many movers/makers in the hobby.

I'm not disgruntled. I'm still in it nearly 40 years after I started collecting pictures of baseball dudes, but it's kept me on the hobby edges and I don't have a problem with it. It is what it is and it seems it's been that way since before I knew what a baseball card was.

perezfan · #7 07-04-2024, 02:57 PM

Yes, he shilled his auctions, and yes, he hand-cut the Wagner. I acquired some of my best pieces from Mastro and Mastro-West, and spent lots of money with them. My name was on the "shilled list" when it came out many years ago, and I was not happy about it (to say the least).

Mastro was aptly punished via our legal system and served his time. Law Enforcement successfully went after the "top dog". Mastro was undisputedly the biggest in the hobby at the time. They made an example of him, and rightfully so.

But I know for a fact that other dealers, auction houses, etc. did the same exact things as Mastro (some to a greater extent; some lesser) with no negative ramifications at all. Outside of LOTG, I have never felt comfortable enough to leave ceiling bids with any of these "Titans" of the hobby". There has always been a sleaze factor, and it seems there always will be.

With time and experience you can limit the number of times you get played, but you can never completely expect to escape it. Just something you need to factor in if you collect this stuff.

Rich Klein · #8 07-04-2024, 03:02 PM

Seeing this makes me wish that SOMEONE who has access to a good scanner and a good hobby library would put on line in a readable format ALL the material from:

Baseball Hobby News

The Trader Speaks

All the Beckett Magazines

Sports Collectors Digest

Baseball Card News

Baseball Card/Sport Card Magazine (The Krause magazine)

As many of the pre-1980 hobby pubs as one can find

Any "legit" reference tomes I forgot in magazines and then books as well

That would truly be a blessing for all concerned and I'd wager the board members would all appreciate that as well

Rich

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #9 07-04-2024, 03:12 PM

I just go into auctions expecting to be shilled. It's surely a reflection of the sad and pathetic, scummy side of the industry, isn't it? Yet it saves me a lot of grief and helps me sleep better instead of staying up until 2:00 a.m. to try to save a few bucks. While I don't condone such garbage, I needed a healthier approach to bidding. Therefore, I just plug in what would have been my max "buy" price if I was making an offer to somebody for the same item(s). Then, I go to bed. If I find I've been blown out of the water upon waking up the next morning, so be it. If I discover that I'm always paying my max bid with the same auction house, it's pretty easy to discern who the scumbags are. At least the really greedy and dumb ones who can't leave a bid increment on the table to appear like they're not always shilling.

But, to be fair, I do not feel that every auction house does this. It's been proven to me by my own bidding. Now, for those of you not fully versed in such matters, you can have some fun reading the fine print in some auction catalogs. There are at least a couple of very major players in the auction industry who specifically state that they condone in-house bidding during their auctions! Yep. Really. As long as they say so in all the tiny lettering, I guess that's apparently fine and dandy.

samosa4u · #10 07-04-2024, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

Yes, he shilled his auctions, and yes, he hand-cut the Wagner. I acquired some of my best pieces from Mastro and Mastro-West, and spent lots of money with them. My name was on the "shilled list" when it came out many years ago, and I was not happy about it (to say the least).

Mastro was aptly punished via our legal system and served his time. Law Enforcement successfully went after the "top dog". Mastro was undisputedly the biggest in the hobby at the time. They made an example of him, and rightfully so.

But I know for a fact that other dealers, auction houses, etc. did the same exact things as Mastro (some to a greater extent; some lesser) with no negative ramifications at all. Outside of LOTG, I have never felt comfortable enough to leave ceiling bids with any of these "Titans" of the hobby". There has always been a sleaze factor, and it seems there always will be.

With time and experience you can limit the number of times you get played, but you can never completely expect to escape it. Just something you need to factor in if you collect this stuff.

Excellent post! I agree with everything you wrote!

Just recently, I was chatting with one respected member on this forum about one auctioneer who always bids on his items. I am pretty sure others know about this as well, but nobody has ever called him out. Why? Well, who wants to go to war with the guys who run this hobby? That wouldn't be a very wise thing to do. It's easy to go after Mastro because he's not running things anymore.

jcmtiger · #11 07-04-2024, 02:31 PM

[QUOTE=oldjudge;2445554]Bill was a force in the hobby. He ran the first major sports auction and before that handled some of the top hobby pieces. I always had a good relationship with Bill and valued his friendship. He's done his time for his crimes and I wish him a long and happy life with his wonderful family going forward.[/QUOTE +1, Me too. Met Bil in he 70�s. At the Plymouth Michigan show. Sold & purchase many items thruhis auctions later on. ]

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Hobby predictions for 2019	Throttlesteer	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	52	05-15-2019 07:43 PM
Bill Mastro in the hobby press, 1969-1970	trdcrdkid	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	4	05-05-2016 10:19 AM
EBAY ID's and Hobby Affiliations of Mastro Co-Conspirators/Shillers	luxurywines	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	5	02-04-2016 06:00 PM
Bill Mastro -- What He Really Thinks of His Hobby Friends	calvindog	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	61	08-26-2015 06:25 PM
A Collector, Mastro, PSA & Our Beloved Hobby	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	85	05-31-2008 02:55 PM