Massive theft at Dallas card show, Nearly 2 Million Dollars worth of cards stolen

gregndodgers · #1 07-09-2024, 12:48 AM

If I were Ash, I would not rely solely on the police to recover the cards. A systematic process can be used to find the cards. What would that process look like?

1. Notify every single card shop in the US that cards have been stolen and provide photos of them, particularly the 52 Mantles, the Shoeless Joe cards, etc. Ask that the card shop owners notify police if they discover a stolen card.
2. Do the same with every pawn shop.
3. Notify and monitor all the on line card markets (comc, pwcc, FB , eBay, Craig’s list, etc) monitor these markets rigorously.
4. Contact the organizers of all card shows. Provide photos of all stolen cards.
5. Contact all of the major grading companies. Maybe they can screen certain card submissions including the higher profile cards such as the 52 Mantles, the Shoeless Joe cards, etc.
6. Notify the media in all large metro areas. Ask that they do a story about the theft.

What other steps can be taken?

IMO, vintage cards, including many that were stolen from Ash, are not put up for sale that often. Card shop owners regularly tell me that collectors are holding onto their vintage, so they don’t see a lot of vintage coming into their stores. Hence, rigorous monitoring and communicating could be the key to recovering some, if not all, of these stolen cards.

pawpawdiv9 · #2 07-09-2024, 02:44 AM

Just saw it on ABC news this morning

Exhibitman · #3 07-09-2024, 06:03 AM

Here’s my stupid question: does bringing all of these super expensive cards to a show ever result in a sale on site?

Dealers please elaborate.

SyrNy1960 · #4 07-09-2024, 06:14 AM

When I would go to card shows and purchase cards, I'm hugging, squeezing, and checking on them to ensure they don't get taken. And I'm only talking about $1,000+ cards. I can't imagine letting $2M worth of cards out of my eye site. But I get it, dealers at shows have a lot do and can get distracted easy.

mrreality68 · #5 07-09-2024, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SyrNy1960

When I would go to card shows and purchase cards, I'm hugging, squeezing, and checking on them to ensure they don't get taken. And I'm only talking about $1,000+ cards. I can't imagine letting $2M worth of cards out of my eye site. But I get it, dealers at shows have a lot do and can get distracted easy.

+1 agreed

I am the same way just as a buyer bringing large amount of cash and/or a few high value cards to trade

Hopefully the reward helps get them caught

SyrNy1960 · #6 07-09-2024, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrreality68

+1 agreed

I am the same way just as a buyer bringing large amount of cash and/or a few high value cards to trade

Hopefully the reward helps get them caught

Yeah, I sometimes laugh at myself how over-the-top I am of constantly checking my cards

brunswickreeves · #7 07-09-2024, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Here’s my stupid question: does bringing all of these super expensive cards to a show ever result in a sale on site?

Dealers please elaborate.

Expensive cards dealers bring to shows are not just purchased since it circumvents the risk and fear of shipping, but are also acquired as an upgraded to something a collector already has (hence why higher end dealers will often have a variety of the same card in different grades-they’re providing a service to a clientele). For example a show attendee makes a deal for their 51 Bowman Mick PSA 1 which they lay on the table along with $4K in cash, in trade for the dealer’s 51 Bowman Mick PSA 2.

parkplace33 · #8 07-09-2024, 07:19 AM

Are there paid security at the National?

HOF_Forever · #9 07-09-2024, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Here�s my stupid question: does bringing all of these super expensive cards to a show ever result in a sale on site?

Dealers please elaborate.

Not a dealer, but I bought a low end N28 Tim Keefe from Ash at the 2023 Strongsville show. In the few minutes it took me to check out the card and think about how much I wanted to offer I watched people buy a high grade 53 Topps Satchel Paige and a T206 green Cobb. This year I asked his son to see a card and the guy next to me was buying a Goudey Ruth. I'd say plenty of the cards get sold on-site.

mrreality68 · #10 07-09-2024, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

If I were Ash, I would not rely solely on the police to recover the cards. A systematic process can be used to find the cards. What would that process look like?

1. Notify every single card shop in the US that cards have been stolen and provide photos of them, particularly the 52 Mantles, the Shoeless Joe cards, etc. Ask that the card shop owners notify police if they discover a stolen card.
2. Do the same with every pawn shop.
3. Notify and monitor all the on line card markets (comc, pwcc, FB , eBay, Craig�s list, etc) monitor these markets rigorously.
4. Contact the organizers of all card shows. Provide photos of all stolen cards.
5. Contact all of the major grading companies. Maybe they can screen certain card submissions including the higher profile cards such as the 52 Mantles, the Shoeless Joe cards, etc.
6. Notify the media in all large metro areas. Ask that they do a story about the theft.

What other steps can be taken?

IMO, vintage cards, including many that were stolen from Ash, are not put up for sale that often. Card shop owners regularly tell me that collectors are holding onto their vintage, so they don�t see a lot of vintage coming into their stores. Hence, rigorous monitoring and communicating could be the key to recovering some, if not all, of these stolen cards.

In theory that would be the way and would love have something in place (ie stolen data base of cards etc for people to easily check)to do it a few obstacles
1. Since they do not come in shop many could be sold on the black market into private collectors that may never see light of day (ie stolen art and antiques)
2. There are just so many shops, venues, shows, etc
3. How diligent will everyone be in all these places when buying these or other cards that are reported.

Snapolit1 · #11 07-09-2024, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrreality68

In theory that would be the way and would love have something in place (ie stolen data base of cards etc for people to easily check)to do it a few obstacles
1. Since they do not come in shop many could be sold on the black market into private collectors that may never see light of day (ie stolen art and antiques)
2. There are just so many shops, venues, shows, etc
3. How diligent will everyone be in all these places when buying these or other cards that are reported.

Contacting pawn shops would be useless, as many of them are fully aware that they are regularly trafficking in stolen merchandise.

Peter_Spaeth · #12 07-09-2024, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

If I were Ash, I would not rely solely on the police to recover the cards. A systematic process can be used to find the cards. What would that process look like?

1. Notify every single card shop in the US that cards have been stolen and provide photos of them, particularly the 52 Mantles, the Shoeless Joe cards, etc. Ask that the card shop owners notify police if they discover a stolen card.
2. Do the same with every pawn shop.
3. Notify and monitor all the on line card markets (comc, pwcc, FB , eBay, Craig’s list, etc) monitor these markets rigorously.
4. Contact the organizers of all card shows. Provide photos of all stolen cards.
5. Contact all of the major grading companies. Maybe they can screen certain card submissions including the higher profile cards such as the 52 Mantles, the Shoeless Joe cards, etc.
6. Notify the media in all large metro areas. Ask that they do a story about the theft.

What other steps can be taken?

IMO, vintage cards, including many that were stolen from Ash, are not put up for sale that often. Card shop owners regularly tell me that collectors are holding onto their vintage, so they don’t see a lot of vintage coming into their stores. Hence, rigorous monitoring and communicating could be the key to recovering some, if not all, of these stolen cards.

"Nationwide, there are approximately 11,000 pawn stores, most of which are family-owned small businesses."

And 2276 sports card stores, according to one source.
https://rentechdigital.com/smartscra...ts-card-stores

gregndodgers · #13 07-09-2024, 09:54 AM

Thoughts on contacting pawn shops:
1. Use the carrot - the $70k reward - as a way to possibly get their help and report the cards if they see them.
2. Use the stick - by contacting them, they are on notice that if they buy stolen cards, they could be an accessory to a crime in addition to being prosecuted for receiving stolen property.
3. Additionally, any person that the pawn shop sells the cards to has acquired stolen property, so they are not good faith owners of the property and would likely have to return that property.
4. Pawn shops could be subject to civil litigation to the card owners for conversion of property.

Sometimes, threats and warnings can deter unlawful conduct.

Peter_Spaeth · #14 07-09-2024, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

Thoughts on contacting pawn shops:
1. Use the carrot - the $70k reward - as a way to possibly get their help and report the cards if they see them.
2. Use the stick - by contacting them, they are on notice that if they buy stolen cards, they could be an accessory to a crime in addition to being prosecuted for receiving stolen property.
3. Additionally, any person that the pawn shop sells the cards to has acquired stolen property, so they are not good faith owners of the property and would likely have to return that property.
4. Pawn shops could be subject to civil litigation to the card owners for conversion of property.

Sometimes, threats and warnings can deter unlawful conduct.

How do you propose he contact 11,000 pawn shops?

Leon · #15 07-09-2024, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How do you propose he contact 11,000 pawn shops?

Same way you eat an elephant. One bite at a time.

But yeah, calling 11k shops isn't feasible. The best thing is to continually show as much of these guys faces as possible. Someone will most assuredly see these pics and know one of the perps, at least.

jingram058 · #16 07-09-2024, 10:27 AM

With their faces all over, sooner or later they will get caught. The investigation will be silent in tracking these guys, as it should be. My guess is it won't take long. Remember the idiot at the hotel we were just talking about a few weeks ago? I just hope they haven't ruined the cards.

Snapolit1 · #17 07-09-2024, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

Same way you eat an elephant. One bite at a time.

But yeah, calling 11k shops isn't feasible. The best thing is to continually show as much of these guys faces as possible. Someone will most assuredly see these pics and know one of the perps, at least.

I’d be really stunned if these jerks aren’t locked up by Friday. Someone knows them and will relish the opportunity to make their lives unpleasant. Could be an ex-wife, could be the neighbor you have been fighting with over a parking spot, could be the guy in high school you never paid back for beers. Exactly a zero chance they get away with this.

Peter_Spaeth · #18 07-09-2024, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I�d be really stunned if these jerks aren�t locked up by Friday. Someone knows them and will relish the opportunity to make their lives unpleasant. Could be an ex-wife, could be the neighbor you have been fighting with over a parking spot, could be the guy in high school you never paid back for beers. Exactly a zero chance they get away with this.

What if they're in Mexico by now?

Hankphenom · #19 07-11-2024, 02:10 PM

[QUOTE=Leon;2446598]Same way you eat an elephant. One bite at a time. /QUOTE] Don't tell me, tastes like chicken?

Bpm0014 · #20 07-11-2024, 02:20 PM

As a cop, the best advice I could give would be to plaster their pictures over the local news. Surely someone who watched the news knows one of them. And I would repeat the process in another couple days or so...

GasHouseGang · #21 07-09-2024, 10:37 AM

If the cards are taken to a pawn shop, there's a chance they might get identified and returned. I don't know about other states, but in California pawn shops require a valid form of identification for everyone wishing to sell or pawn an item. All intake transactions, and every item's serial number along with a detailed description, are forwarded to law enforcement and checked through a stolen property reports database.

notfast · #22 07-09-2024, 10:45 AM

These cards aren�t going to a pawn shop.

babraham · #23 07-09-2024, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How do you propose he contact 11,000 pawn shops?

Call 100 a day for the next 110 days?

gregndodgers · #24 07-09-2024, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

"Nationwide, there are approximately 11,000 pawn stores, most of which are family-owned small businesses."

And 2276 sports card stores, according to one source.
https://rentechdigital.com/smartscra...ts-card-stores

Lots of shops to contact. Get six people willing to call and text non-stop for several days. Divide and conquer by region. IMO, small price to pay for a $2M loss. It�s worth a shot.

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