Paul Skenes Superfractor Ends in Goldin

maniac_73 · #1 07-18-2024, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas00

Of course I hope it doesn�t happen. But how long can you throw 100mph for as a starter before it does? It feels inevitable to me.

Verlander did a pretty good job adjusting when he couldn't throw 100 anymore. Velocity was calculated differently back in the day but Nolan RYan threw 100 consistently as a starter. I think throwing mechanics and luck are more of a factor in injury than how fast someone throws.

Lucas00 · #2 07-18-2024, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maniac_73

Verlander did a pretty good job adjusting when he couldn't throw 100 anymore. Velocity was calculated differently back in the day but Nolan RYan threw 100 consistently as a starter. I think throwing mechanics and luck are more of a factor in injury than how fast someone throws.

And I hope Paul is one of these outliers as well. Like Nolan and Randy. But I think Statistically it's too dicey to take a several hundred thousand dollar risk (talking about the card). Then again like people always say, if you have that much to spend on a single card you probably don't care that much or can take a loss without much care. What I hope, the buyer is a collector and fan of Paul, and will never sell it.

maniac_73 · #3 07-19-2024, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas00

And I hope Paul is one of these outliers as well. Like Nolan and Randy. But I think Statistically it's too dicey to take a several hundred thousand dollar risk (talking about the card). Then again like people always say, if you have that much to spend on a single card you probably don't care that much or can take a loss without much care. What I hope, the buyer is a collector and fan of Paul, and will never sell it.

Forgot about the big unit! I agree though that speculating a few hundred grand on a rookie is insanity!

D. Bergin · #4 07-19-2024, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maniac_73

Forgot about the big unit! I agree though that speculating a few hundred grand on a rookie is insanity!

What's crazy about Randy Johnson, is nobody would have ever "invested" in him to begin with.

He was an unheralded 2nd round pick with a mediocre minor league career. A live arm for sure, but with really bad control issues.

His first several years as a starter he struck out a ton of guys, but had a horrible problems with Walks, and sported some atrocious WHIP numbers.

The same could be said of Nolan Ryan, but Nolan came out of it at a much younger age then Randy.

Johnson didn't even begin to become dominating until he was almost 30, which by then "investors" would think it's a complete waste of time putting money into a guy who has to crawl out of a giant statistical hole to one day be considered one of the best pitchers to ever live.

That would be like, all of a sudden, deciding to invest in Cliff Lee Rookie cards in 2008.

Even, with all that said. Considering the numbers he eventually compiled throughout his career. I don't see a lot of general interest in Randy Johnson Rookie cards.

Beercan collector · #5 07-19-2024, 11:26 AM

The last Rookie I speculated in was 90 leaf Steve Avery ,
$20 I�ll never get back

bnorth · #6 07-19-2024, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

What's crazy about Randy Johnson, is nobody would have ever "invested" in him to begin with.

He was an unheralded 2nd round pick with a mediocre minor league career. A live arm for sure, but with really bad control issues.

His first several years as a starter he struck out a ton of guys, but had a horrible problems with Walks, and sported some atrocious WHIP numbers.

The same could be said of Nolan Ryan, but Nolan came out of it at a much younger age then Randy.

Johnson didn't even begin to become dominating until he was almost 30, which by then "investors" would think it's a complete waste of time putting money into a guy who has to crawl out of a giant statistical hole to one day be considered one of the best pitchers to ever live.

That would be like, all of a sudden, deciding to invest in Cliff Lee Rookie cards in 2008.

Even, with all that said. Considering the numbers he eventually compiled throughout his career. I don't see a lot of general interest in Randy Johnson Rookie cards.

You can't give most Randy Johnson cards away. There are a few 89 Fleer versions that sell for 4 and 5 figures. Not sure why but I never hear of any Randy collectors besides the ones that collect the 89 Fleer error versions.

D. Bergin · #7 07-19-2024, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

You can't give most Randy Johnson cards away. There are a few 89 Fleer versions that sell for 4 and 5 figures. Not sure why but I never hear of any Randy collectors besides the ones that collect the 89 Fleer error versions.

Out of curiosity I just checked and Randy Johnson Upper Deck Rookies in PSA 10 sell for well under 100 bucks nowadays.

Ken Griffey Jr's card from that set sells for about 2 grand.

Griffey Jr. has 1 MVP and a career 83.8 WAR

Randy Johnson has 5 Cy Youngs and a career 101.1 WAR

Also...and forgive me if I'm perpetuating a myth, wasn't there rumors of monster boxes full of Ken Griffey Jr. Rookies coming out of the Upper Deck factory, separately from it's normal print run?

Now, I'm not saying that Griffey Jr. and Randy Johnson should be on the same playing field, when it comes to this issue, but the discrepancy seems insane to me.

To me, I'd say Randy Johnson was the Nolan Ryan of his era...I'd call Pedro the Sandy Koufax of that era.......but I guess, if anything, it reinforces that collectors/investors don't really care about most pitchers, unless they are present day phenoms.

Skenes looks fantastic so far...but how long until he becomes just the next Bret Saberhagen, Stephen Strasburg......or hell, best case scenario...Randy Johnson?

Peter_Spaeth · #8 07-19-2024, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Out of curiosity I just checked and Randy Johnson Upper Deck Rookies in PSA 10 sell for well under 100 bucks nowadays.

Ken Griffey Jr's card from that set sells for about 2 grand.

Griffey Jr. has 1 MVP and a career 83.8 WAR

Randy Johnson has 5 Cy Youngs and a career 101.1 WAR

Also...and forgive me if I'm perpetuating a myth, wasn't there rumors of monster boxes full of Ken Griffey Jr. Rookies coming out of the Upper Deck factory, separately from it's normal print run?

Now, I'm not saying that Griffey Jr. and Randy Johnson should be on the same playing field, when it comes to this issue, but the discrepancy seems insane to me.

To me, I'd say Randy Johnson was the Nolan Ryan of his era...I'd call Pedro the Sandy Koufax of that era.......but I guess, if anything, it reinforces that collectors/investors don't really care about most pitchers, unless they are present day phenoms.

Skenes looks fantastic so far...but how long until he becomes just the next Bret Saberhagen, Stephen Strasburg......or hell, best case scenario...Randy Johnson?

Nolan and Koufax are very big with collectors, so it's obviously not all pitchers. Johnson just never gained hobby traction, maybe in part it was the teams he played on (Yankees were VERY late), maybe it was his lack of charm, maybe part of it was that he always seemed to be third fiddle to Clemens and Maddux even though that probably was not fair.

Snowman · #9 07-21-2024, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

What's crazy about Randy Johnson, is nobody would have ever "invested" in him to begin with.

He was an unheralded 2nd round pick with a mediocre minor league career. A live arm for sure, but with really bad control issues.

His first several years as a starter he struck out a ton of guys, but had a horrible problems with Walks, and sported some atrocious WHIP numbers.

The same could be said of Nolan Ryan, but Nolan came out of it at a much younger age then Randy.

Johnson didn't even begin to become dominating until he was almost 30, which by then "investors" would think it's a complete waste of time putting money into a guy who has to crawl out of a giant statistical hole to one day be considered one of the best pitchers to ever live.

That would be like, all of a sudden, deciding to invest in Cliff Lee Rookie cards in 2008.

Even, with all that said. Considering the numbers he eventually compiled throughout his career. I don't see a lot of general interest in Randy Johnson Rookie cards.

Nolan Ryan's first sub 1.10 whip didn't happen until he was 42 years old. Randy's came at 31.

D. Bergin · #10 07-21-2024, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

Nolan Ryan's first sub 1.10 whip didn't happen until he was 42 years old. Randy's came at 31.

Ok, I guess Nolan sucked until he was 42 then.

Gorditadogg · #11 07-21-2024, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Ok, I guess Nolan sucked until he was 42 then.

Compared to Johnson at least.

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