Massive theft at Dallas card show, Nearly 2 Million Dollars worth of cards stolen

raulus · #1 07-22-2024, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

If we don't hear that the authorities caught them, when do we realize those thieves got away with it ? 3 more weeks ? 6 months ? 1 year ? 5 Years ? 10 years ?

Unless there’s an exception that I’m missing, it looks like the statute of limitations for theft runs out at 5 years in the great state of TX.

I suppose we can debate at what point the trail goes cold and law enforcement puts it into the unsolved case file, to wait for something to happen on its own, like one of the perps turning on the rest of the gang. I would randomly guess that could theoretically happen within a few months if there’s zero traction and no leads.

HercDriver · #2 07-22-2024, 08:17 PM

I haven't chimed in yet, and I rarely do, but what if they have ID'd the guy(s) and are waiting for them to try to sell, to double down on them with mail fraud or something. I don't know...I don't watch Law and Order, just the Cubs games on MLB Network. I've seen some pretty grainy videos on Yahoo News that have led to arrests, worse than these. Yes, Yahoo News. I hate all the news networks anymore, so I just take what pops up with my email, and get suckered in on the click bait. But the guys who push people into the train tracks on the subway ion NYC are way grainier than these guys. Just my random musings as I sip a Michjter's Rye and watch the frustrating Cubbies.

Cheers,
Geno

gregndodgers · #3 07-22-2024, 11:50 PM

If FBI is involved, and I know for a fact that they are, the federal theft statutes as well as conspiracy are implicated.

Additionally, for the FBI to be involved, there must be evidence that the stolen cards or thieves crossed state lines to commit the crime or a telephone was used.

For conspiracy, which is clearly implicated here because more than one person participated in the theft, the SOL begins to run after commission of the last overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy. Because conspiracies are continuing in nature, it may be decades before the SOL runs out.

Mark17 · #4 07-23-2024, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

If FBI is involved, and I know for a fact that they are, the federal theft statutes as well as conspiracy are implicated.

Additionally, for the FBI to be involved, there must be evidence that the stolen cards or thieves crossed state lines to commit the crime or a telephone was used.

For conspiracy, which is clearly implicated here because more than one person participated in the theft, the SOL begins to run after commission of the last overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy. Because conspiracies are continuing in nature, it may be decades before the SOL runs out.

What does the SOL accomplish for the thieves? Can someone steal something, sit quietly on it until the Statue of Limitations runs out, then sell the stolen goods with impunity?

Exhibitman · #5 07-23-2024, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

What does the SOL accomplish for the thieves? Can someone steal something, sit quietly on it until the Statue of Limitations runs out, then sell the stolen goods with impunity?

Depends.

Criminal and civil are two different things.

Most states have exceptions to civil limitations periods that extend the time to recover stolen items. Usually, these give the victim time after an article is discovered or should have been discovered if the victim was paying attention. Some items, like looted art from WWII, have been subjected to new limitations periods based on special legislation. While a thief cannot acquire good title, the victim may lose the ability to retrieve the item if enough time has passed, which amounts to the same thing as good title. I am certain that most of us have items in our collections that were stolen at one time or another, even if it was a kid lifting a card from his brother's collection while the brother was in the army.

Every state has a different set of rules and precedents covering this issue, so no blanket rule can be stated. I know Cali law but jacksquat about Texas law, so any Texans out there to further elaborate?

raulus · #6 07-23-2024, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

What does the SOL accomplish for the thieves? Can someone steal something, sit quietly on it until the Statue of Limitations runs out, then sell the stolen goods with impunity?

I'm wading into the danger zone as an accountant attempting to speak to legal issues, but I think the idea is that the SOL eliminates the possibility of being charged with the crime, and the potential of jail time. Obviously it's a long ways from being home free and the ability to just act with impunity, but at least that one source of potential jeopardy is lifted once the SOL has run.

Carter08 · #7 07-23-2024, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulus

I'm wading into the danger zone as an accountant attempting to speak to legal issues, but I think the idea is that the SOL eliminates the possibility of being charged with the crime, and the potential of jail time. Obviously it's a long ways from being home free and the ability to just act with impunity, but at least that one source of potential jeopardy is lifted once the SOL has run.

My thought has been that SOLs are legislatively created and, therefore, risk being legislatively changed. So it would be hard to be supremely comfortable doing anything untoward if you�re relying on a SOL as your only defense. That�s a little different than if you�re been tried and acquitted and then do something untoward because at that point you�d be relying on a constitutional defense of double jeopardy, not just a legislative invention of a SOL.

Peter_Spaeth · #8 07-23-2024, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

My thought has been that SOLs are legislatively created and, therefore, risk being legislatively changed. So it would be hard to be supremely comfortable doing anything untoward if you’re relying on a SOL as your only defense. That’s a little different than if you’re been tried and acquitted and then do something untoward because at that point you’d be relying on a constitutional defense of double jeopardy, not just a legislative invention of a SOL.

Au contraire.
The U.S. Supreme Court opined in Stogner v. California in 2003 that a change of a statute of limitations cannot be retroactively applied to crimes which were committed prior to the law’s change. The Court held that retroactive application would violate the constitutional ban on ex post facto laws.

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