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Old 07-22-2024, 08:00 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
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Beltre never felt like a hall of famer in real time to me either. This is why I to use the math, because it is objective and my perceptions and feelings are very much not.

Beltre is clearly well over the HOF line, he just had a weird career structured to feel like it was less valuable than it was. A league average bat and great defense for his first five years (97 OPS+), a monster year in 2003, then off to Seattle where he was a league average bat (101 OPS+) again for five years. His age 31 through 38 seasons are where he finally racked up offensive value consistently. The first year or two it felt like a fluke again like his 2003 season, and then it felt like it was too late in his career for the blossoming to get him over the line.

Clayon Kershaw has a higher ERA+ than any other pitcher in major league history who threw more than 1,5000 innings. If he is not A HOFer I genuinely cannot think of anyone who is deserving.
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Old 07-22-2024, 08:17 PM
Mike D. Mike D. is offline
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I will say that Beltre did have one of the shortest "maybe a hall of famer" periods in recent memory. As a later bloomer who played a long time, he went from "non-candidate" to "sure thing" very quickly. You looked up and suddenly he had 400+ HR and was approaching 3,000 career hits.

The Best Rookie & Prospect Cards Of 2024 Hall Of Famer Adrian Beltre

What's your favorite early Beltre card? The Bowman cards are cool, but I'm partial to the '97 Best cards and some of the minor league offerings.
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Old 07-23-2024, 09:16 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
Beltre never felt like a hall of famer in real time to me either. This is why I to use the math, because it is objective and my perceptions and feelings are very much not.

Beltre is clearly well over the HOF line, he just had a weird career structured to feel like it was less valuable than it was. A league average bat and great defense for his first five years (97 OPS+), a monster year in 2003, then off to Seattle where he was a league average bat (101 OPS+) again for five years. His age 31 through 38 seasons are where he finally racked up offensive value consistently. The first year or two it felt like a fluke again like his 2003 season, and then it felt like it was too late in his career for the blossoming to get him over the line.

Clayon Kershaw has a higher ERA+ than any other pitcher in major league history who threw more than 1,5000 innings. If he is not A HOFer I genuinely cannot think of anyone who is deserving.
Look at the first two home stadiums he played in and then the last two he played in and things get a lot clearer. LA and Seattle were big pitchers parks at those times. Boston and Texas are massive hitters parks.
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Old 07-23-2024, 10:13 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
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Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
Look at the first two home stadiums he played in and then the last two he played in and things get a lot clearer. LA and Seattle were big pitchers parks at those times. Boston and Texas are massive hitters parks.
Hence the use of the parka adjusted OPS+. Adjusting for park, Beltre was still right at league average. There is no mathematical debate about that fact.
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Old 07-24-2024, 10:58 AM
Mike D. Mike D. is offline
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Beltre did fit a lot of "storylines" into his, err...storied career.

Not many guys can claim to be all of:
  • Top prospect
  • Young star
  • Disappointment
  • Breakout star (48 HR year)
  • Big FA signing (SEA)
  • Reclamation project (BOS)
  • Big FA signing (TEX)
  • Superstar
  • Sure thing future Hall of Famer
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Last edited by Mike D.; 07-24-2024 at 10:58 AM.
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