What are the best vintage, investment-type players in your opinion?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

He achieved what he achieved,what if the sprinkler was set lower, what if he didn't have a drinking problem, what if his body wasn't prone to injury?

Didn't Mays achieve the same mythical stature? He did for me and many other collectors.

Is your issue that Mays rookie is cheaper than Mantle rookie? Who cares?

You're posting fantasy what ifs with racist undertones, yes, America was racist in the 50's, America is currently the least racist country in the world.

Can we please move forward and realize the dream of Martin Luther King?

Way back in this thread a guy asked a legitimate question why Mantle had the hobby status he did, given where he falls in terms of on field performance. I was simply trying to answer that question as best I could. You are raising a bunch of straw men, I have said nothing at all about present day America nor am I posting anything with racist undertones. Moving forward with Dr. King's vision does not mean not talking about racism particularly its historic impact.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Way back in this thread a guy asked a legitimate question why Mantle had the hobby status he did, given where he falls in terms of on field performance. I was simply trying to answer that question as best I could. You are raising a bunch of straw men, I have said nothing at all about present day America nor am I posting anything with racist undertones. Moving forward with Dr. King's vision does not mean not talking about racism particularly its historic impact.

Right, but you answered with the race card like that is relevant today in the world of card collecting.
Why does a certain segment of white society always have to bring race into every discussion?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Right, but you answered with the race card like that is relevant today in the world of card collecting.
Why does a certain segment of white society always have to bring race into every discussion?

I can't answer that question. I can only say that in my opinion, Mantle being white, at that time, was one of a number of factors in why he achieved the relative stature he did. That's all. The question was asked, and I volunteered an answer.

I could easily ask the question you put a different way. Why does a certain segment of white society avoid honest discussions about race?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I can't answer that question. I can only say that in my opinion, Mantle being white, at that time, was one of a number of factors in why he achieved the relative stature he did. That's all. The question was asked, and I volunteered an answer.

I could easily ask the question you put a different way. Why does a certain segment of white society avoid honest discussions about race?

Because if all of our discussions lead with race like a certain segment of white society is prone to do we will never move forward as a nation.

Are you just as willing to call out the racist/sexist hate Catlyn Clark is receiving from the black/lesbian dominated WNBA?

[G1911]

Let's just assume that people pay more for Mantle because of his white skin.


Shall we call out that if Clemente was a white boy he wouldn't sell for as much and would be closer to Kaline?

Or that Robinson is valued mostly based on race?

In my little wing of the cigarette card boxing hobby it's pretty obvious that there is an explicit and constant race factor that values blacks significantly over whites.

Ali cards are worth a whole lot more as a shit-talking black muslim than if he was a shit-talking white christian.

Jack Johnson outsells Jim Jeffries, who had a far superior resume, by ~50X because of race.

Heck, check out Isaac Murphy's N162 vs. a white jockey. Why is he worth so, so much more?


I am sure we all feel equally troubled about these valuation differences.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Because if all of our discussions lead with race like a certain segment of white society is prone to do we will never move forward as a nation.

Are you just as willing to call out the racist/sexist hate Catlyn Clark is receiving from the black/lesbian dominated WNBA?

Clark wasn't so much hated by players as just found annoying, and it had nothing to do with her skin color or sexual orientation. The issue with her was that she is a whiner and she was getting all the press at the beginning of the year while established stars were getting very little. I believe most felt that she had to earn the attention at the professional level not just be bestowed it for what she did in college. She is one of the top 10 players in the league which is great for a rookie, but it's a little premature to be starting the bust on Mount Rushmore.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Clark wasn't so much hated by players as just found annoying, and it had nothing to do with her skin color or sexual orientation. The issue with her was that she is a whiner and she was getting all the press at the beginning of the year while established stars were getting very little. I believe most felt that she had to earn the attention at the professional level not just be bestowed it for what she did in college. She is one of the top 10 players in the league which is great for a rookie, but it's a little premature to be starting the bust on Mount Rushmore.

I hope this was a typo and you meant "winner"

But I agree, Clark got huge amounts of attention that no previous WNBA player had, so there was some bitterness, but none of it was "racism" (or "sexism" which doesn't make any sense in this context).

Believe that any bitterness from current players will fade quickly as league revenues and visibility continue to soar.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's natural any player who comes in on a pedestal like that is going to absorb some hard fouls and trash talk as other teams try to intimidate her a bit and make her earn her place. I would not characterize that as "hate."