Theft at Philly Show

[ClementeFanOh]

G1911- The weapon issue has 3 components:

1) An individual carrier may feel safer while carrying.

2) Carrying a weapon to react to a robbery- NOT a theft- is certainly
plausible. Guys who follow a dealer or collector to their homes have
moved past theft, and into territory where a carrier could articulate the
use of a weapon for defense.

3) Again, the mere presence of a weapon might well persuade a bad guy
to try someone else. "An armed society is a polite society".

To be clear enough that even you will have a hard time twisting it, I am not
remotely suggesting that weapon possession is the primary deterrent at
shows. I have never thought to myself that I may need to protect my life
at a sports card show, and hope I never will. The weapon carry conversation
is one aspect of a wide range of precautionary measures which, if
undertaken diligently and consistently, would often prevent more drastic
measures. I'm well aware you think quite highly of your knowledge base, but
I'm very, very confident on this issue. We should all be on the same
team here, I can't imagine anyone thinking that continued high dollar
theft/robbery at shows we attend, is something to ignore or pass to others
as "their problem, not mine".

Trent King

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

G1911- The weapon issue has 3 components:

1) An individual carrier may feel safer while carrying.

2) Carrying a weapon to react to a robbery- NOT a theft- is certainly
plausible. Guys who follow a dealer or collector to their homes have
moved past theft, and into territory where a carrier could articulate the
use of a weapon for defense.

3) Again, the mere presence of a weapon might well persuade a bad guy
to try someone else. "An armed society is a polite society".

To be clear enough that even you will have a hard time twisting it, I am not
remotely suggesting that weapon possession is the primary deterrent at
shows. I have never thought to myself that I may need to protect my life
at a sports card show, and hope I never will. The weapon carry conversation
is one aspect of a wide range of precautionary measures which, if
undertaken diligently and consistently, would often prevent more drastic
measures. I'm well aware you think quite highly of your knowledge base, but
I'm very, very confident on this issue. We should all be on the same
team here, I can't imagine anyone thinking that continued high dollar
theft/robbery at shows we attend, is something to ignore or pass to others
as "their problem, not mine".

Trent King

1) I mean sure, carry for other things if you are going to do so responsibly and with control.

2) I have yet to see any evidence of such an incident? It's probably happened at some point in the last 40 years but absolutely none of the threads we have had this year about this spate of thefts ever posed any danger to anyones life.

3) Again, it is not legal to draw your gun and brandish it on someone for committing a theft or you suspect committed a theft. In none of the actual real world incidents we have discussed would producing the weapon, a requirement to persuade a bad guy to stop, be legal or even ethical.

Guns are for extreme cases where there are no better options, not a tool to stop anything negative or to feel good.

When did I say thefts should be ignored? I'd leave to see where I said that.

[ClementeFanOh]

G1911-

1) Some commenters in this thread very clearly mentioned incidents of
showgoers being followed beyond the show site. This goes beyond mere
Theft by deception.

2) On the other hand, not one commenter (that I recall) mentioned or
advocated brandishing a weapon at a suspected thief in a show hall.
Rather obviously, lethal force isn't justified in such a situation- but again,
no one mentioned it as an option, other than you in the negative.

3) This really isn't difficult. People are searching for ways to protect their
property or person at shows or beyond them. Personal carry is just one
way.

4) Again, I am very well-schooled in this area so I'm not going to take the
bait for some contorted debate. The notion that people are willing to
discuss gun carry is a symptom of this growing problem at shows, not the
cause. My comment about "passing the problem" applies to all of us.

Done and dusted, Trent King

[Peter_Spaeth]

Trent, I may not be following you, but how does carrying a weapon act as a deterrent unless would be thieves know the dealer has one? Do you put a sign on your table saying you're armed?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

G1911-

1) Some commenters in this thread very clearly mentioned incidents of
showgoers being followed beyond the show site. This goes beyond mere
Theft by deception.

2) On the other hand, not one commenter (that I recall) mentioned or
advocated brandishing a weapon at a suspected thief in a show hall.
Rather obviously, lethal force isn't justified in such a situation- but again,
no one mentioned it as an option, other than you in the negative.

3) This really isn't difficult. People are searching for ways to protect their
property or person at shows or beyond them. Personal carry is just one
way.

4) Again, I am very well-schooled in this area so I'm not going to take the
bait for some contorted debate. The notion that people are willing to
discuss gun carry is a symptom of this growing problem at shows, not the
cause. My comment about "passing the problem" applies to all of us.

Done and dusted, Trent King

1) Followed, and an unoccupied vehicle broken into at a restaurant parking lot. That's not free rein to use your gun. Again, the gun would not have helped this incident.

2) As I recall, someone did bring that scenario into the 500 post thread on the front page about the in-show theft. It was a little concerning.

3) How is the presence of a concealed firearm going to deter a criminal unless it is first drawn? Read your previous post? Again, it would not have changed any of these cases. I am all in favor of carrying a gun, but it is not for these kinds of thefts.

4) You don't seem to be very well schooled or responsible whatsoever.

Done and dusted 'em

[ClementeFanOh]

G1911-

1) That was NOT the only incident mentioned in this thread. I have NOT said
that people have "free rein" to use a gun as it suits them.

2) My comments are restricted to this thread, not some 500 post thread in
the past. It's likely you made 80 of those 500 posts anyway, so I'm sure
it's a clown show. People on THIS thread are discussing yet another
high dollar card show Theft and ways to deter/address them.

3) If you really need to be told how a presence of a weapon- concealed or
not- may deter a person with criminal intent, you don't belong in this
chat. (Maybe start with a Google search for "open carry", if you can
manage it).

4) You are a dullard who can't follow basic lines of thought. Frankly, I'm
astonished you've stayed on topic this long, albeit incorrectly. The people
on this thread have posted consistent remarks except, naturally, for you.
You are the one who turned reasonable thoughts into Mad Max conditions.

Get help! Trent King

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

G1911-

1) That was NOT the only incident mentioned in this thread. I have NOT said
that people have "free rein" to use a gun as it suits them.

2) My comments are restricted to this thread, not some 500 post thread in
the past. It's likely you made 80 of those 500 posts anyway, so I'm sure
it's a clown show. People on THIS thread are discussing yet another
high dollar card show Theft and ways to deter/address them.

3) If you really need to be told how a presence of a weapon- concealed or
not- may deter a person with criminal intent, you don't belong in this
chat. (Maybe start with a Google search for "open carry", if you can
manage it).

4) You are a dullard who can't follow basic lines of thought. Frankly, I'm
astonished you've stayed on topic this long, albeit incorrectly. The people
on this thread have posted consistent remarks except, naturally, for you.
You are the one who turned reasonable thoughts into Mad Max conditions.

Get help! Trent King

1) Then you shouldn't be objecting and throwing a fit because I said a gun is not an appropriate solution for these kinds of thefts. If you don't believe a gun is the appropriate solution for the situation that is the topic, why are you mad? Try to follow the actual statements instead of just that I live rent free in your head and you're angry.

2) My comments, which you are replying to on schedule for your monthly breakdown, are explicitly about the spate of 2024 card show theft threads and said directly this multiple times. If you don't want to talk about that, then don't reply to talk about it. Kind of obvious, no? EDIT: The dataset shows I made 11 of the 517.

3) A concealed weapon cannot deter anyone, as they don't know you have it. Let's try to think. Are we now changing to one should open carry a gun to card shows so everybody knows not to fuck with you? Should I really be bringing my M4 to card shows to protect my baseball cards?

4) Yes, I am a stupid dullard. But at least I'm not a violent nutter who throws a fit when another poster says you shouldn't just shoot any thief or lynch politicians you don't like. Let's see the details of your certain to be third meltdown when I next post something against unnecessary violence.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Oh I see we're now on to open carry. Even assuming it were legal in the location, that's a great atmosphere for a card show.