SGC'S Aggressive Upcharges

[Exhibitman]

BF, you can make up your own mind; everyone is entitled to collect in whatever way they want. This hobby has room for all of it. But the issue we are discussing here is not your personal philosophy of collecting: if you don't want to collect graded cards, knock yourself out. Instead, you come into a thread about grading company charging practices and crap all over the grading process itself and the people who use grading services.

Lemme clue you in, pal: not liking slabbed cards doesn't make you a more pious, pure, true collector than the guys who have a box full of slabs. There are people, believe it or not, who enjoy the hobby by collecting graded cards, and are just as passionate and involved with their collections as you appear to be with yours.

You've been here all of five minutes; how about a little respect for your fellow collectors who may not see things the way you do?

[Swadewade51]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Lemme clue you in, pal: not liking slabbed cards doesn't make you a more pious, pure, true collector than the guys who have a box full of slabs. There are people, believe it or not, who enjoy the hobby by collecting graded cards, and are just as passionate and involved with their collections as you appear to be with yours. You've been here all of five minutes; how about a little respect for your fellow collectors who may not see things the way you do?

+1

[perezfan]

Plenty of room in the hobby for all types of collectors. There is no right or wrong way to collect, which I'm sure everyone has heard zillions of times by now. So need for belligerence...

That said... SGC now upcharges you for shittier than expected grades too. I wanted to use them for a bunch of future submissions, but am seriously reconsidering. I'm simply dreading the impending wallet-ectomy (a "medical" term recently coined by my friend Dave).

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Plenty of room in the hobby for all types of collectors. There is no right or wrong way to collect, which I'm sure everyone has heard zillions of times by now. So need for belligerence...

That said... SGC now upcharges you for shittier than expected grades too. I wanted to use them for a bunch of future submissions, but am seriously reconsidering. I'm simply dreading the impending wallet-ectomy (a "medical" term recently coined by my friend Dave).

How are you being upcharged if the grade is worse than expected? If upcharging happens because the value of the card is higher than the submitter estimated based on the expected grade, then how can a lower than expected grade result in an upcharge unless you're underestimating the value that a higher grade would have resulted in, or am I missing something?

[Fred]

I understand the upcharge by the TPGs . Why would they leave money on the table. Does this mean that the TPGs have a team of people that look at current pricing and then review submissions to ensure they catch the big upcharges? I'm guessing they wouldn't bother with the lower tiered/priced cards.

Just curious. What if you "over estimated" the grade on your submission and entered a higher cost grading tier for payment. Will the TPGs refund you the difference because of the lower grade (therefore lowering the grading fee)?

It's been a while since I've submitted anything so I don't understand how this all works anymore.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Fred

Just curious. What if you "over estimated" the grade on your submission and entered a higher cost grading tier for payment. Will the TPGs refund you the difference because of the lower grade (therefore lowering the grading fee)?

It's been a while since I've submitted anything so I don't understand how this all works anymore.

Not sure about how SGC rolls, but for PSA, when you pay more, you move up to a higher level of service, which gets you faster turnaround time.

So you wouldn’t get your money back just because you paid for a higher level of service than you needed based on the value of your piece.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by jayshum

How are you being upcharged if the grade is worse than expected? If upcharging happens because the value of the card is higher than the submitter estimated based on the expected grade, then how can a lower than expected grade result in an upcharge unless you're underestimating the value that a higher grade would have resulted in, or am I missing something?

Long story... here's the abbreviated version. I submitted cards to SGC at a show. The SCG representative told me the exact values to use for each card. Many were up-charged well beyond the normal $15 fee.

3 weeks later they posted the lower than expected grades, but SGC said I owed them $830 for some God forsaken reason. They wouldn't release my cards until I paid them their ransom.

And their customer service is not just bad... it's non-existent. So I cannot get any further answers or even appeal the outcome.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Long story... here's the abbreviated version. I submitted cards to SGC at a show. The SCG representative told me the exact values to use for each card. Many were up-charged well beyond the normal $15 fee.

3 weeks later they posted the lower than expected grades, but SGC said I owed them $830 for some God forsaken reason. They wouldn't release my cards until I paid them their ransom.

And their customer service is not just bad... it's non-existent. So I cannot get any further answers or even appeal the outcome.

Wow, that's crazy. It makes me glad I've never submitted anything for grading because I definitely wouldn't want to deal with something like that. I hope you get it resolved soon. Is there another show soon that you can go to where SGC will be at so you can at least talk to someone in person?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Wow, that's crazy. It makes me glad I've never submitted anything for grading because I definitely wouldn't want to deal with something like that. I hope you get it resolved soon. Is there another show soon that you can go to where SGC will be at so you can at least talk to someone in person?

Yes, thanks.... And I plan to do just that, as there's another show in November.

And I agree with you about not submitting cards to these corrupt money-making machines. I only did it in anticipation of selling. All the "pundits" in this hobby seem to think there's a stigma on raw cards and/or something must be wrong with them if they're not graded. Sad state of affairs, the way they've ruined the hobby.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Yes, thanks.... And I plan to do just that, as there's another show in November.

And I agree with you about not submitting cards to these corrupt money-making machines. I only did it in anticipation of selling. All the "pundits" in this hobby seem to think there's a stigma on raw cards and/or something must be wrong with them if they're not graded. Sad state of affairs, the way they've ruined the hobby.

Regarding your experience with the grading company, I am sorry to hear that happened.

When it comes to the stigma of raw cards, though, I view things a bit differently. Since the majority of newcomers to the hobby won't touch raw cards, it makes them harder to sell. I find that to be a positive when I'm at a show. Less competition and lower prices are obvious perks. The other one I've found is that the dealers are generally nicer, as are my interactions with them. I guess they're grateful to be talking cards with someone. They probably hear "...I'm looking for a so-and-so rookie in PSA X that's centered..." all day long.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by perezfan

And I agree with you about not submitting cards to these corrupt money-making machines. I only did it in anticipation of selling. All the "pundits" in this hobby seem to think there's a stigma on raw cards and/or something must be wrong with them if they're not graded. Sad state of affairs, the way they've ruined the hobby.

I couldn't agree more.

[timn1]

Maybe you want to consider posting the long story, because that has not been my experience with SGC. I often don't get the grades I hope for, but they haven't ripped me off and my interactions with their customer service have been very good, especially recently.

Originally Posted by perezfan

Long story... here's the abbreviated version. I submitted cards to SGC at a show. The SCG representative told me the exact values to use for each card. Many were up-charged well beyond the normal $15 fee.

3 weeks later they posted the lower than expected grades, but SGC said I owed them $830 for some God forsaken reason. They wouldn't release my cards until I paid them their ransom.

And their customer service is not just bad... it's non-existent. So I cannot get any further answers or even appeal the outcome.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by timn1

Maybe you want to consider posting the long story, because that has not been my experience with SGC. I often don't get the grades I hope for, but they haven't ripped me off and my interactions with their customer service have been very good, especially recently.

I posted a separate thread about it 2-3 weeks ago, but it's probably dropped to page 3 by now.... easily findable if you really care to see. Not going to dredge it back up, as I'd rather just put this in the rear-view mirror.

Glad you've had success with them... they're better than PSA, I'll give you that!

And if you have any advice/tips/recommendations on how to reach an actual SGC human being, I'm all ears. Their only listed phone number automatically refers you to email (which they don't reply to). So a contact person's name/number would be much appreciated... Thanks!

[gunboat82]

I'd gladly pay an upcharge for the services of whomever SGC had grading strip cards in the olden days. The goalposts have moved considerably.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

BF, you can make up your own mind; everyone is entitled to collect in whatever way they want. This hobby has room for all of it.

Yes, I agree.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Lemme clue you in, pal....

Well if we're both agreed that I can make up my own mind, why are you suggesting that I need to be "clued in"? That doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

...not liking slabbed cards doesn't make you a more pious, pure, true collector than the guys who have a box full of slabs.

I neither said nor implied any such thing.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

There are people, believe it or not, who enjoy the hobby by collecting graded cards, and are just as passionate and involved with their collections as you appear to be with yours.

Oh probably. But since we've already agreed that everyone can make up their own mind and "everyone is entitled to collect in whatever way they want", neither of us can speak for anyone else let alone address their level of passion.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

But the issue we are discussing here is not your personal philosophy of collecting: if you don't want to collect graded cards, knock yourself out.

If it's all right with you, I'd rather stay conscious and alert.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Instead, you come into a thread about grading company charging practices and crap all over the grading process itself and the people who use grading services.

I said that SGC was only charging what the market would bear and I didn't understand why the people who didn't like SGC's prices didn't just say "No!" That's basically just a common sense remark. As such that's not "crapping" on anybody.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

You've been here all of five minutes....

Well yeah, but I have been posting rather actively on many and varied discussion forums since 2001 including the CGC comic board since 2005 (under a different name) and this board's Net54 Hockey and Non-Sport sister boards since 2011.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

how about a little respect for your fellow collectors who may not see things the way you do?

Speaking of respecting fellow collectors, let me point out that you're the one who characterized a fellow poster (me) as "pious" and my comments as "narrow-minded" and "self-righteous". I've not (yet) said anything of that sort about you or anyone else on this board.

But simply expressing opinions that might not be shared by the majority of other board members here can hardly be classified as "disrespectful".

[raulus]

Sometimes it seems like this whole grading business brings out the worst in all of us.

For those that abhor grading, there's a constant feeling that the war is being lost. Every day seems to bring more news that more and more stuff is ending up in slabs. Even stuff that is worth less than the cost of getting it slabbed! For this group, this endless procession must seem a bit like Sisyphus perpetually rolling his boulder up the hill or maybe King Canute being unable to stop the tide. And I suspect the whole thing just makes for a very irascible bunch.

For those that are into grading, at some point there will come a dawning realization that grading is deeply flawed. The graders routinely miss card doctoring. Some pieces are over-graded. Recently, even more seem to be under-graded. While we might wish that the marketing copy from the graders were true, sooner or later we're bound to realize that the execution of the concept leaves a lot to be desired. Particularly for those that have a big chunk of their net worth tied up in high graded slabs, these dynamics lead to a similar level of discontent and irascibility.

For extra fun and hijinks, mix it all together in a short-form chat room, where it's easy to get your dander up, and you've got the perfect cocktail for everyone to find a reason to lash out and go a little bit nuts. It's almost as much fun as politics, but without the upside of getting the dopamine hit of having your preferred candidate win from time to time.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by raulus

Sometimes it seems like this whole grading business brings out the worst in all of us.

For those that abhor grading, there's a constant feeling that the war is being lost. Every day seems to bring more news that more and more stuff is ending up in slabs. Even stuff that is worth less than the cost of getting it slabbed! For this group, this endless procession must seem a bit like Sisyphus perpetually rolling his boulder up the hill or maybe King Canute being unable to stop the tide. And I suspect the whole thing just makes for a very irascible bunch.

For those that are into grading, at some point there will come a dawning realization that grading is deeply flawed. The graders routinely miss card doctoring. Some pieces are over-graded. Recently, even more seem to be under-graded. While we might wish that the marketing copy from the graders were true, sooner or later we're bound to realize that the execution of the concept leaves a lot to be desired. Particularly for those that have a big chunk of their net worth tied up in high graded slabs, these dynamics lead to a similar level of discontent and irascibility.

For extra fun and hijinks, mix it all together in a short-form chat room, where it's easy to get your dander up, and you've got the perfect cocktail for everyone to find a reason to lash out and go a little bit nuts. It's almost as much fun as politics, but without the upside of getting the dopamine hit of having your preferred candidate win from time to time.

Well said and very profound!

[jchcollins]

You could reply a lot quicker to Adam in this style if you moved all of this to Facebook, LOL.

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Yes, I agree.



Well if we're both agreed that I can make up my own mind, why are you suggesting that I need to be "clued in"? That doesn't make sense.



I neither said nor implied any such thing.



Oh probably. But since we've already agreed that everyone can make up their own mind and "everyone is entitled to collect in whatever way they want", neither of us can speak for anyone else let alone address their level of passion.



If it's all right with you, I'd rather stay conscious and alert.



I said that SGC was only charging what the market would bear and I didn't understand why the people who didn't like SGC's prices didn't just say "No!" That's basically just a common sense remark. As such that's not "crapping" on anybody.



Well yeah, but I have been posting rather actively on many and varied discussion forums since 2001 including the CGC comic board since 2005 (under a different name) and this board's Net54 Hockey and Non-Sport sister boards since 2011.



Speaking of respecting fellow collectors, let me point out that you're the one who characterized a fellow poster (me) as "pious" and my comments as "narrow-minded" and "self-righteous". I've not (yet) said anything of that sort about you or anyone else on this board.

But simply expressing opinions that might not be shared by the majority of other board members here can hardly be classified as "disrespectful".

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

You could reply a lot quicker to Adam in this style if you moved all of this to Facebook, LOL.

I don't do Facebook (as a matter of general principle). Nor do I respond kindly to sarcasm or condescension.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

I don't do Facebook (as a matter of general principle). Nor do I respond kindly to sarcasm or condescension.

But you do clearly have to respond. To everything.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

But you do clearly have to respond. To everything.

I'll just prove your point.

[Balticfox]

Here though is a thread to which I wish you yourself and other board members would respond:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=353646

I like talk about the cards themselves.