HOF? Pettitte; Sabathia: Either; Nether; Both

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I have a hard time giving a damn about post season counting stats. Your TEAM has to get you there an awful lot to give you even a chance of racking those numbers up. So I have a hard time saying Petitte was greater than say Felix Hernandez, because he got a ton of postseason opportunities. When Fernandez was a much more dominant pitcher overall, albeit one who was, unfortunately, finished at a much younger age. Then again that's what PED's gets you.

A bit confused by your Felix Hernandez comment. How did you come to the conclusion that you think I think Pettitte is better than Felix?

But since you brought up Felix, I think he is actually pretty comparable to Pettitte. Felix has the Cy Young and 2 ERA titles, but as you mentioned, his career was pretty short--he was basically done by age 30. Wins may be a somewhat meaningless number, but Felix's 169 wins compared to Pettitte's 259 is maybe meaningful, and speaks to Pettitte's consistency over time--he still going strong into his 40s.

Felix never got to 50 WAR, and Pettitte's was over 60. Felix's JAWS is 97th for a starting pitcher at 44.1, and Pettitte's is 82nd at 47.2.

Both have a career ERA+ of 117, 4 Top 5 Cy Young finishes, but got there in different ways. Felix was more of a power pitcher, with 8.3 strikeouts per 9 to Pettitte's 6.6 strikeouts per 9. But Pettitte being more of a pitch to contact guy may have helped with his longevity.

Its not Felix's fault he never saw a postseason opportunity (except for maybe in 2018 when his poor play may kept them out of the playoffs) . But its also not Pettitte's fault that he did. Pettitte took advantage of great situation to record the most postseason wins ever.

[carlsonjok]

As a Yankees fan, I wouldn't mind seeing either make it, but as stated above, I think CC has a much stronger case. That said, there was a few years in the latter part of his career, CC was pretty ineffective and almost painful to watch. He improved again in 2016 through 2018 but those few years before that were absolutely brutal.

As a final point, Pettite would never have a bobblehead as glorious as this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Very close in WAR as well as counting stats. But Pettitte has the scarlet letter.

[BearBailey]

Neither.

[G1911]

I would think Sabathia gets in via the writers. 250 wins has been reached by Verlander, but otherwise appears to be a thing we aren't going to see anymore, and it will make him stick out.

Pettitte was hurt by, even though they really aren't all that far removed from each other, competing with Maddux, Johnson, Clemens, Mussina, Smoltz, Glavine, Schilling, et al. A lot of great pitchers who put together long careers for the hall. He is more hurt by the steroids but even without them I think he'd have a harder time, even if that really isn't fair.

Both are real borderline candidates, careers adding up to significant value but little in the way of traditional HOF credentials. The kind of candidates that sometimes get in after awhile and sometimes never do.

[sports-cards-forever]

Pettitte was great but never considered an Ace, like Sabathia