New PSA Terms & Conditions: Comp. Damages and Injunctive Relief for Card Doctoring

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You don't seem to be very in touch with the current market.

Stock, bond and commodities markets, yes (well at least sometimes). But as far as the card market goes, I didn't realize I had to be in the business of cards to post about the hobby of card collecting on this board. I'm all about the aesthetics of the cards themselves and not about the business of cards. And this move by PSA to distance themselves from liability for their mistakes does nothing, let me repeat nothing, for the hobby of card collecting.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I guarantee (haha) you the vast majority of buyers don't even know about the guarantee and if they do they don't care.

Maybe tomorrow I'll post a poll about that specific question.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

They've thus undermined their whole business model. For what after all are customers paying if not some sort of guaranty?

The guarantee has always applied to a subsequent purchaser. To my knowledge, it has never applied to the original submitter.

And the guarantee continues to apply to a subsequent purchaser.

The whole idea is that a buyer can buy with confidence, and tap the guarantee if necessary. For the original submitter, they are now potentially on the hook if they submit doctored cards to PSA. And, of course, the guarantee also helps the submitter to sell their stuff, because buyers trust the slab. Whether that trust is warranted, I grant you, is up to the market. And not everyone agrees on that point, even if the market currently respects the slab.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by raulus

The guarantee has always applied to a subsequent purchaser. To my knowledge, it has never applied to the original submitter.

And the guarantee continues to apply to a subsequent purchaser.

The whole idea is that a buyer can buy with confidence, and tap the guarantee if necessary.

Yes I understand. But the lengthy doggerel they've added to the Terms and Conditions nonetheless serves as a tacit admission that they don't necessarily get it right.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Of the thousands of people who submit to PSA and buy and sell PSA graded cards, how many actually care about this? I would think next to none. Non event. Zero revenue impact. On to the next sub.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Of the thousands of people who submit to PSA and buy and sell PSA graded cards, how many actually care about this? I would think next to none. Non event. Zero revenue impact. On to the next sub.

The only ones who should care are the card doctors. I’m guessing that they’re either not paying attention, or they have no intention of materially modifying their approach to using the TPGs to launder their wares.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

The only ones who should care are the card doctors. I’m guessing that they’re either not paying attention, or they have no intention of materially modifying their approach to using the TPGs to launder their wares.

The top tier ones have made obscene amounts of money already, and my belief is they will keep on keeping on. I will say it again: this industry has been driven by the unholy alliance between card doctors, TPGs, and auction houses. If you think otherwise, you're kidding yourself.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The top tier ones have made obscene amounts of money already, and my belief is they will keep on keeping on. I will say it again: this industry has been driven by the unholy alliance between card doctors, TPGs, and auction houses. If you think otherwise, you're kidding yourself.

Any proposed solutions?

Go with the balticfox method of avoiding all slabbed cards always and everywhere?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

Any proposed solutions?

Go with the balticfox method of avoiding all slabbed cards always and everywhere?

Ask the FBI to look into it. Oh, wait, never mind.

I have a number of steps I follow before buying any card which hopefully cut down on altered cards, and I have a decent eye for suspicious looking stuff, but I am under no delusions that my methods are foolproof.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ask the FBI to look into it. Oh, wait, never mind.

I have a number of steps I follow before buying any card which hopefully cut down on altered cards, and I have a decent eye for suspicious looking stuff, but I am under no delusions that my methods are foolproof.

Thanks for sharing. I hope your approach works out. Obviously I've had one slabbed card outed as being doctored, and the odds are good that there are more lurking yet to be found. Owning a slabbed piece that is later discovered to be doctored is no fun, that's for sure.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

Thanks for sharing. I hope your approach works out. Obviously I've had one slabbed card outed as being doctored, and the odds are good that there are more lurking yet to be found. Owning a slabbed piece that is later discovered to be doctored is no fun, that's for sure.

Avoid cards obviously short in holders. Not by any means foolproof, there are type one and type two errors with this approach, but it's a start.

Check databases for altered cert numbers.

Check sales history. If first sale by a suspicious seller, pass.

Check surrounding certs. If a lot of rejects, pass. Or on modern side, if nothing but 10s, be suspicious.

Avoid certain sellers like the plague that they are.

OH, and you won't like this one, but avoid high grade vintage.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

avoid high grade vintage.

Sadly, you have to have a keen eye on those cards. Especially pre war tobacco. T206s are notorious for trimmed cards in high grades. I know we have a lot of T206 collectors on this board, but the bottom line is that a lot of high grades cards are bad. 100 percent doctored.