Ebay Seller: PSA

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fred

Yes, I'm guessing it's plausible. Does every post necessitate a complete explanation to you? I'm guessing this hit a sensitive nerve for you. Uh, really, a 1,000 highly improbable things to talk about? So why don't you tell us why it's not remotely plausible that PSA wouldn't sell their own cards.

You brought that up. All I did was respond to the original post and somehow it got twisted to me saying I was accusing PSA of selling their own cards (which if you read the unedited post, it does not state PSA is selling their own cards).

In subsequent posts it was stated that it wouldn't surprise me if PSA would do that. Big difference than saying they do.

It's a thought/opinion which if you don't agree with, then you just don't agree with it. Please re-read my original post and tell me where it said PSA was selling their own cards. I'm sure others can go back and read it. Better yet, maybe I'll start a poll and ask people if the original post says that PSA sells their own cards (it doesn't).

None of that answers the question. I never said you said PSA was selling their own cards. Straw man. Rather, I said that by your own admission, you are talking about it as though it were a plausible scenario. That is, it could happen. And my question to you was, and is, why do you think it's plausible? "I'm guessing it's plausible" is not much of an answer. And I have no clue about the "sensitive nerve" part but whatever. PS Ironic that for all your concern people misread your post, you misread mine lol.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

None of that answers the question. I never said you said PSA was selling their own cards. Straw man. Rather, I said that by your own admission, you are talking about it as though it were a plausible scenario. That is, it could happen. And my question to you was, and is, why do you think it's plausible? "I'm guessing it's plausible" is not much of an answer. And I have no clue about the "sensitive nerve" part but whatever. PS Ironic that for all your concern people misread your post, you misread mine lol.

The reason I think it's plausible is because of greed. Simple one word answer.

There have been so many issues that people have found out about TPG's (let's just call it as it is - PSA because they are without a doubt the king of grading). PSA does not appear to be doing anything about the issues, but one thing is for certain, they appear to be about fully capitalizing their business (which is what businesses are supposed to do) and if it gets to the point where profitability begins to wane, then it wouldn't surprise me to see some bonehead exec putting two and two together and coming up with a million (greed).

The truly sad part is that people just don't seem to care as long as they're making money or the appearance of making money (by holding cardboard for it's current valuation).

A point to consider (which has been widely discussed in other threads, no new revelation here) - why are they charging so much to grade high end cards? They can sit back on their "subjectivity". There's no guarantee with the service they provide, so why stick it to the collecting public and charge so much for their opinion? Why, because they can because there are a lot of people whose main concern is the Benjamins and making more off this thing that used to be a fun hobby. PSA will figure out more ways to make money off the collecting public because that's what they do.

Do you feel it's not plausible? If so, I bet there are a few readers that would love to read your thoughts on why not.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fred

The reason I think it's plausible is because of greed. Simple one word answer.

There have been so many issues that people have found out about TPG's (let's just call it as it is - PSA because they are without a doubt the king of grading). PSA does not appear to be doing anything about the issues, but one thing is for certain, they appear to be about fully capitalizing their business (which is what businesses are supposed to do) and if it gets to the point where profitability begins to wane, then it wouldn't surprise me to see some bonehead exec putting two and two together and coming up with a million (greed).

The truly sad part is that people just don't seem to care as long as they're making money or the appearance of making money (by holding cardboard for it's current valuation).

A point to consider (which has been widely discussed in other threads, no new revelation here) - why are they charging so much to grade high end cards? They can sit back on their "subjectivity". There's no guarantee with the service they provide, so why stick it to the collecting public and charge so much for their opinion? Why, because they can because there are a lot of people whose main concern is the Benjamins and making more off this thing that used to be a fun hobby. PSA will figure out more ways to make money off the collecting public because that's what they do.

Do you feel it's not plausible? If so, I bet there are a few readers that would love to read your thoughts on why not.

They have completely cornered and dominate the third party grading market which is absolutely thriving. They authenticate all sorts of stuff like type 1 photos, balls, autographs, who knows what else. PCGS is a dominant player in coins. They surely have other sources of revenue as well such as their authentication deals with ebay. PSA as an entity does not "own" cards and I can't imagine that fits in the business plan. And even if it did, they could easily sell through auction houses, they don't need to sell through an ebay account. Why would they, to shill cards up a few bucks? They can do that anyhow, believe me. If you are saying Nat Turner would do it to sell his own cards, that makes no sense to me either.

Even if they were ruthlessly greedy, that doesn't mean they want to expand to every corner and level of the hobby.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They have completely cornered and dominate the third party grading market which is absolutely thriving. They authenticate all sorts of stuff like type 1 photos, balls, autographs, who knows what else. PCGS is a dominant player in coins. They surely have other sources of revenue as well such as their authentication deals with ebay. PSA as an entity does not "own" cards and I can't imagine that fits in the business plan. And even if it did, they could easily sell through auction houses, they don't need to sell through an ebay account. Why would they, to shill cards up a few bucks? They can do that anyhow, believe me. If you are saying Nat Turner would do it to sell his own cards, that makes no sense to me either.

Even if they were ruthlessly greedy, that doesn't mean they want to expand to every corner and level of the hobby.

Well, it'd be difficult to debate your points. But... it wouldn't be a few bucks.
This can easily can get 3 or 4 extra zeros deep. Even for cards that only get pushed a couple extra zeros, that still adds up after a while and those cards are easily absorbed into circulation. A single grade point could push a card to a point that the ROI is insane.

I don't want to start a conspiracy theory, but should we believe, or be naive enough to not believe there's no impropriety going on behind PSA management's back with the number of submissions being handled on a yearly basis? All it takes is a few $20/hour submission and grading monkeys to figure things out and spin a few hundred grand profit under everyone's noses every year. Ok, that would not be a PSA thing because it wouldn't be authorized. But again, at some point after all the good ideas for making more money don't pan out, there's always going to be pushing a few 10s or low pop 9s out there and selling it through one of the many available networks (AHs, fleabay, shows).

I guess I don't have as much faith as you have when it comes to people doing the right thing all the time. Perhaps that has to do with the way the business has been run from day one - PSA8 Wags. Yes, new blood is in, but they're looking to make a profit.

Your points are good and was worth the read. Thank you for that.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fred

Well, it'd be difficult to debate your points. But... it wouldn't be a few bucks.
This can easily can get 3 or 4 extra zeros deep. Even for cards that only get pushed a couple extra zeros, that still adds up after a while and those cards are easily absorbed into circulation. A single grade point could push a card to a point that the ROI is insane.

I don't want to start a conspiracy theory, but should we believe, or be naive enough to not believe there's no impropriety going on behind PSA management's back with the number of submissions being handled on a yearly basis? All it takes is a few $20/hour submission and grading monkeys to figure things out and spin a few hundred grand profit under everyone's noses every year. Ok, that would not be a PSA thing because it wouldn't be authorized. But again, at some point after all the good ideas for making more money don't pan out, there's always going to be pushing a few 10s or low pop 9s out there and selling it through one of the many available networks (AHs, fleabay, shows).

I guess I don't have as much faith as you have when it comes to people doing the right thing all the time. Perhaps that has to do with the way the business has been run from day one - PSA8 Wags. Yes, new blood is in, but they're looking to make a profit.

Your points are good and was worth the read. Thank you for that.

Oh I did not mean to imply there's no impropriety in GRADING. I have said many times I think TPGs do Animal Farm grading -- some submitters are more equal than others.