Let�s rehash the Bond Bread controversy.

Johnphotoman · #1 11-30-2024, 07:32 AM

Butch, part of me agrees with you, but as you said, your cards check enough of the boxes, for you to say they are 1947-1949 baseball cards. Let's look at the facts: We have people who have first hand Knowledge, these people collected their cards directly from Bond Bread loaves of bread or from Sports Star cards from - 1947-49.

We know what they look like, feel like, what they're printed on and the quality of printing from first hand knowledge. Then we have two letters to tell us about them, “24 card set originally printed in 1947-49 - offered for sale in 1970s and 1980s. Note, the letter says that they are not re-prints but the original 1947 printed cards. These are not just letters trying to get people to buy their cards. But very respected and qualified people and organizations to make such claims. Much different then the letter that went out from the 1980s Festberg - discovered, and the fact that we can tell the Festberg cards from the originally printing 1947 cards helps us to believe your cards fall under the 1947-49 printed cards.

Using the above criteria - in all faith, we are able to put certain cards in the 1947-49 print time. But no one can say they have a real Bond Bread, only the ones who collected cards directly out of the Bond Bread loaf of bread. Bond Bread and Sports Star did produce the exact same rounded corner cards, therefore you or I or anybody for that fact can say for sure a rounded corner card is a Bond Bread card, but if they check all the same boxes as the cards you have… we can say they are from 1947-49. But you are right, a serious amount of forensic work needs to be done on these cards to actually place them in the 40's era 100%. Given what we know I believe we can place the right cards with a 80 to 90% accuracy in the 1947-49 window of time. I also believe we can place the re-prints, and fakes with the same 80 to 90% accuracy - that they do not fit in the 1947-49 window of time. John

Johnphotoman · #2 11-30-2024, 07:47 AM

Yoda: That question is one for the experts who know about what is considered rare. Right out of the box I would say no.Understand the only people who have collected the original - Bond Bread cards, are those who collected those cards out of the loaves of bread. They are the only ones or have the �original Bond Bread cards�. I would say if you have proof, one could say on that point they are very rare. John

Johnphotoman · #3 11-30-2024, 08:11 AM

I agree wholeheartedly with Scott, he is right on. Bond Bread did not print their own cards. It was only after seeing the Sports Star cards, they contacted the Chicago publisher, Aarco Playing Cards to print the same cards for them to put in their loaves of bread. Aarco, who originally sold the cards in 1947 in boxed sets of 12 under the name Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects. And as Scott said, the 1980s Festberg find are: “The cards from the "find" are on old paper stock, not paper stock from the 1980's. They are left over stock from the 1940's or early 1950's. I don't know why collectors would shy away from them, they are legit 1940's-1950's cards.”

I am not saying the 80s Fesberg are not from the 1947-50s, someone stored these cards printed from 1940-50s and they stayed there until Fesberg found them in 1980 or so. But it's just good to know what we have in our collection, and since we can tell them apart from the others we should designate them as such. I do believe people should collect the 1980 find. But we should be able to say if they are from The Sports Star/Bond Bread sets in our collection. It if fun to know what you have - anyway they are all good to have, just not as good as the-reprints or fakes. Thank You Scott, John.

ullmandds · #4 11-30-2024, 08:39 AM

Does anyone know how the large the stash of cards was that was found...from the late 40's...presumably? Seems to me it was quite large as these cards were readily available for many years at pretty low prices.

Johnphotoman · #5 11-30-2024, 09:32 AM

I do remember there was a letter that said about how many cards there where, I will look to see if I have it, and yes you can still get these cards at a lower price, that is our hobby for you. Any and all cards that come from the 1940-50, should come at a premium, no matter when they were made available for sale. But that is good for us in one way, but for those who collect for profit - must be going out of their mind, these cards are the first cards printed after World War II, they should be bringing premium and very high premiums, but I for one I'm glad they are not. I do not have big pockets. But I think that should sell for more. John

ullmandds · #6 11-30-2024, 09:35 AM

part of the problem is many sellers sell these as "bond" bread examples and as a result there is a lot of confusion regarding them. Funny I only seem to see the big names from the set...I wonder where all the lesser named cards are????

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnphotoman

I do remember there was a letter that said about how many cards there where, I will look to see if I have it, and yes you can still get these cards at a lower price, that is our hobby for you. Any and all cards that come from the 1940-50, should come at a premium, no matter when they were made available for sale. But that is good for us in one way, but for those who collect for profit - must be going out of their mind, these cards are the first cards printed after World War II, they should be bringing premium and very high premiums, but I for one I'm glad they are not. I do not have big pockets. But I think that should sell for more. John

Johnphotoman · #7 11-30-2024, 10:04 AM

It does appear that many of the cards you see for sale are from the 24 set, because the 24 set did print the bigger names, and not many from the 44 card set.
But it is hard to tell what set a card came from, many have the exact same image on them. I will dig up the list, unless someone can post the list for the 44 card set and the 24 card set. And yes that is the point not all cards are Bond Bread that claim to be. They are 1947-49, but cannot be called Bond Bread, again unless you have proof they came from Bond Bread loaves of bread. The hobby does - mislabel many cards. John

Yoda · #8 11-30-2024, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnphotoman

Yoda: That question is one for the experts who know about what is considered rare. Right out of the box I would say no.Understand the only people who have collected the original - Bond Bread cards, are those who collected those cards out of the loaves of bread. They are the only ones or have the �original Bond Bread cards�. I would say if you have proof, one could say on that point they are very rare. John

John, the reason I posed the question is I hold 2 1947 Bond Bread insert cards with Stan the Man having a printed Bond Bread reverse while the Scooter has a blank back. Was just curious if the blank backs are rarer. Thanks. John

Johnphotoman · #9 11-30-2024, 01:01 PM

No the blank backs are not rarer, in my opinion. The 1947-49 cards we call "Bond Bread" had blank backs. And may 1947-49 cards had printing on the backs, I will look up the distinction later and explain the difference between the two, I'll have to check my notes, I cannot answer off the top of my head. I can say the one with printing on the backs, has never been given the title of Bond Bread. They are both great cards to have. John.

Johnphotoman · #10 11-30-2024, 01:27 PM

I gave this thread the name - “Let’s rehash the Bond Bread controversy.” For a good reason, to point out everything labeled as Bond Bread should not be given that distinction for reasons specified in this thread. And in the original thread by Ted Zanidakis - I believe too many people look down on the other cards. The title of the Ted Z thread (the Bond Bread controversy (1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards?) I hope I have that right. Leaves us with a lot to think about.

I believe a lot of good information came out of the thread, but in my opinion too many people think all other cards from 1947 are “importers” that are labeled as Bond Bread, they go as far as to say they are not from 1947-49, but some unknown time of print. And try to say all squared cards are reprints, we now know this is not the case. Yes, all cards we call Bond Bread should not be given that distinction. But just because they are squared does not mean they where not printed in 1947-49.

In this very thread I have given the misconception about the 1980 Festberg find. They are not reprints, just leftover cards printed from 1947-49. I have said the quality was not as good, I do want to take that back after looking at cards for sale that I believe are from that find, I was wrong, the printed cards are as good as the originals.

But we can still tell the Festberg cards from the others; The details are in the back of the cards. We can tell they are from the 1980 by the back of the cards. It tells us what kind of paper stock was used, and this is how we can tell them apart from other cards that were printed in 1947-49.

I want to say this does not mean they are inferior cards in any way. But should be considered or labeled as 1947-49 Festberg find: Yes these cards were sold in the 1980-90 and until till today, but they are not reprint or fakes or cards from some unknown year, just because they were not sold in 1947-49.

The reason I said the Festberg cards printing was not as good as the original 1947 cards, I was going by what others have said. But now that I have seen what I believe to be from the original Festberg cards - I will say you can only tell them by the stock - paper they were printed on, by looking at the back. Think about these cards as cars, they are all 1947-49 cars, but just different models. The cards may be on different stock, ie, models-but are still 1947-49 cards, different stock does not mean they where printed in different years.

I know there are people who bought 1947-49 baseball cards called Bond Bread from David Festberg (1980 Festberg cards). It would be great to have some of those cards posted here. John

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