This Probably Won't Go Anywhere, But...

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

Take into consideration a collector and/or investor financial state.

Some of us are wealthy enough outside of our cards that we are more free to do as we please with our cards. If you are fortunate enough to have a good paying job, own a home(s), have a retirement pension, and have a significant chunk of change in other investments, then go ahead enjoy the hobby as you like - slab or raw, pass your cards down, take them to the grave, whatever your heart desires.

However, some of us are not that fortunate. For us our cards represent an honest part of our retirement savings. We need to maximize our card value holdings to help fill out our retirement income. Thus we grade our cards so we can realize all we can out of our holdings. We are trying to do the best we can with what we have.

We are all in different boats in this thing called life.

If the cards were purchased well before this recent price runup (which has been going on for a few years now), then there may be some legitimacy to this, but purchasing cards today seems like a big risk if it's considered part of a retirement plan.

I wonder what a financial adviser would say about considering cardboard a part of a retirement strategy. But then again, my guess is there are not many financial advisers with enough hobby know how to really address this. I wonder what percentage of a retirement portfolio would be a "safe" amount of money to tie into cards as an investment vehicle.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jingram058 View Post
When either I or my wife or daughter ever sell them, they will go for whatever like graded examples go for or they won't be sold. Period, end of discussion.

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

This quote seems a bit delusional to me. It's not how the market works, and most likely not how your heirs will feel either.

I wouldn't call that delusional. For all we know he could have some pretty "interesting" cards that are raw that people would absolutely pay for. As an overall strategy for all cards, perhaps a bit ambitious.


That reminds me, I need to put together something for my family in case I get hit by a bus in the next couple of days.

TJ - do you practice estate planning? If so, it'd be neat to hear some thoughts you have for card board investing. For example, designating them for inheritance, etc.

[Touch'EmAll]

Fred, yes over 90% of my cards were purchased before the big covid run-up. I was fortunate they have grown in value significantly. So much so that they now represent the majority of my retirement savings. I do own my own home outright, however, I have no pension or company retirement plan as I am self-employed. I did not plan it that way, but I guess I lucked out to have the chips fall where they may. It will be difficult to part with them some day when money is needed for retirement. Until then, I enjoy my cards very much, take pride in ownership, and love collecting the lesser cards I can afford. Yes, I agree purchasing big cards at today's prices could be more risky than ever before. This past year I have invested what I could into Bitcoin, not big cards. Again, I thank my lucky stars Bitcoin has done well and has a bright future. Between shrewd investments, a little luck, and the smarts to save what I can and not over spend, I should be fine come retirement in a few years.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

Yes, I agree purchasing big cards at today's prices could be more risky than ever before. This past year I have invested what I could into Bitcoin, not big cards. Again, I thank my lucky stars Bitcoin has done well and has a bright future. Between shrewd investments, a little luck, and the smarts to save what I can and not over spend, I should be fine come retirement in a few years.

Somebody should point out the detail that neither cards nor Bitcoin kick off any income stream let alone one that's likely to grow. Nor are they actually capable of kicking off an income stream. Meaning as financial instruments I wouldn't call either an "investment". Just speculations, and rather rank ones.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Just speculations, and rather rank ones.

Now you’ve gone and done it, invoking the “s” word! Going to get a whole bunch of people riled up now!!!

[Balticfox]

Just doing my part to keep the forum lively.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Somebody should point out the detail that neither cards nor Bitcoin kick off any income stream let alone one that's likely to grow. Nor are they actually capable of kicking off an income stream. Meaning as financial instruments I wouldn't call either an "investment". Just speculations, and rather rank ones.

Why does something have to throw off an income stream to be deemed an investment?

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why does something have to throw off an income stream to be deemed an investment?

Because without the element of a potential income stream at some point down the road, a buyer is merely hoping/speculating that another buyer will pay more for the asset without a quantifiable rationale. If any or every such purchase can be dignified as an investment, then there is no way such purchases can be differentiated from putting money down on the ponies, in Las Vegas or on lottery tickets. Yet the latter purchases/bets under standard nomenclature are termed "gambling" not "investment".

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Because without the element of a potential income stream at some point down the road, a buyer is merely hoping/speculating that another buyer will pay more for the asset without a quantifiable rationale. If any or every such purchase can be dignified as an investment, then there is no way such purchases can be differentiated from putting money down on the ponies, in Las Vegas or on lottery tickets. Yet the latter purchases/bets under standard nomenclature are termed "gambling" not "investment".

There is a lane for the investment "flipping" world that's guided by intelligent speculation, even some based in an established reality of the moment.

During COVID, many people holding onto traditionally "safe" 70/30 - 40/60 stocks/bonds ratio were seeing a give and take of their returns as the market bounced around favoring one or the other.

People getting ahead of trends were banking, especially ones that show themselves enough to be a reliable event. My lane was buying oil/gas stocks when China announced major manufacturing area shutdowns (down) and selling when those areas reopened (up). There were 4+ major fluctuations during the COVID era that led to great returns.

There's room for speculators that don't need a steady supplement to their income from dividends/etc.

To bring it back to cards, I invest in what I consider under-valued graded cards of guys that I feel will make the HOF in my lifetime. Somewhat recently, the 15+ years I spent bidding low and snapping up Jim Kaat RC's paid off extremely well. I didn't consider him an "if" candidate, I considered him a "when" candidate.

I look forward to much of the same with Luis Tiant in the near future.

[Rhotchkiss]

I found the following definitions of Investment online, searching "Investment defined" on google:


"An investment refers to any asset that is obtained for cost on the grounds that it is expected to provide value in the future that will exceed its initial cost and time to value."

"Investing, broadly, is putting money to work for a period of time in a project or undertaking to generate positive returns (profits that exceed the amount of the initial investment). It's the act of allocating resources, usually capital (i.e., money), with the expectation of generating an income, profit, or gains."

"the outlay of money usually for income or profit" (Merriam Webster)

"the act of putting money, effort, time, etc. into something to make a profit or get an advantage, or the money, effort, time, etc. " (Cambridge Dictionary)

It seems all of the above definitions require the same elements for an investment:
1. Actually laying out money
2. To acquire an asset
3. Intending to make a profit/more money than was laid out

There is no requirement that the asset produce income, rather that the one expects to earn more than they paid for asset.

The difference between cards and "gambling" is that in gambling you are not acquiring an asset/seeking to profit from an asset.

Cards are 100% an asset and I 100% invest in cards (and have done well - its been a good investment).

[Peter_Spaeth]

NM.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Fred

I wonder what a financial adviser would say about considering cardboard a part of a retirement strategy. But then again, my guess is there are not many financial advisers with enough hobby know how to really address this. I wonder what percentage of a retirement portfolio would be a "safe" amount of money to tie into cards as an investment vehicle.

My experience is that financial advisors will suggest 5% to 10% in “alternative assets” is fine. Usually I see that in connection with someone who is trying to push a particular investment, like forestland.

At the moment, while my own percentage tied up in cardboard has declined recently, due to a focus on other assets recently, plus a run up in the price of other assets recently, I still have an uncomfortably high percentage tied up in cardboard. The good news/bad news is that I don’t really need the cardboard for my retirement, and also have never really been focused on the investment element, but every little bit helps.