Richie Allen and Dave Parker.

[toppcat]

Dave Parker makes Harold Baines look like a first ballot HOF selection.

[Snapolit1]

I don’t think it would have taken much to convince the Dick Young’s of the world that Allen was some sort of violent black panther activist.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Dave Parker makes Harold Baines look like a first ballot HOF selection.

There were times when Parker was considered one of the top players in the game. I'm not sure the same was ever true about Baines.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by jayshum

There were times when Parker was considered one of the top players in the game. I'm not sure the same was ever true about Baines.

+1

Parker finished in the top 20 in MVP voting 9 times, Baines 4 times. Parker was in the top 10 6 times, winning once. Baines only made one appearance in the top 10 and that was a 9th place finish.

[jingram058]

Happy for Allen. Parker, not so sure. Once again, too many better ballplayers languishing in the Hall of Never Getting In, for whatever reasons.

But as others have said here, other than the HoF country club, and people on these forums, no one cares.

[Vintagedeputy]

Garvey snubbed again. Unreal.

[packs]

Pretty surprised Vic Harris got almost no support.

There needs to be another pre-integration vote for only pre-integration players to give proper focus and respect to this era of baseball. this committee does not take it seriously enough in its current iteration.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by packs

Pretty surprised Vic Harris got almost no support.

There needs to be another pre-integration vote for only pre-integration players to give proper focus and respect to this era of baseball. this committee does not take it seriously enough in its current iteration.

Why? In 2006; they formed a special committee. There were 94 players who were evaluated. That was paired down to 39 for a vote. Each one was given a yes or no vote. All 39 could have been elected, but only 17 were. Harris was in the 94 and didn't make the cut. Donaldson was in the 39 and was voted no on.

This is a lot different than what someone like Parker went through. Everytime he has been voted on, the voters were limited how many players they can choose. From his first ballot, he is the 11th Hall of Famer elected from that ballot and there are about 6 more who are deserving. It would be impossible to have elected all of these due to the number voters could vote for.

His last time on the ballot, he was on a ballot with 13 Hofers, plus steroid users and a few more that will be elected in the future.

His first time on the Veterans Committee, he was one of 12. 3 were elected with 100%, that is why no one else received 6 votes. Parker is the 6th Hofer off that ballot.

His second time on the ballot, Morris received 14/16, Trammell 13/16, future Hofer Simmons 11/16 and future Hofer Miller 7/16. That left 3 votes for the other 6 guys on the ballot. Parker is the 5th Hofer from that ballot.

Unless the voting system is changed to give voters the option of voting for everyone, like on the Negro League ballot, you are going to see the same players get voted on with a few new names replacing those who were voted in.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Garvey snubbed again. Unreal.

In my mind, Garvey’s mistake was all that BS with his personal life that caused his support on the writer’s ballot essentially to implode back in the 90’s and 00’s for a while when he was fresher in everyone’s collective memories. Once he moved on to the various iterations of the VC and “era” committees, sabermetrics had become a thing, and his shortcomings in certain career stats to me at least anyway seemed a lot more obvious.

For starters before you even get to that, he’s a 1B with less than 300 career HR. Most typical HOF 1B have power figures way beyond that. Only 38 career WAR and a .329 OBP don’t help him much either.

If it were up to me, I’d put him in; I’m for a (slightly anyway) “larger” Hall. Garvey certainly has the hardware accolades (An MVP, 10x AS, 4 GG, an AS MVP, an LCS MVP…) and there is at least a decent argument that he was the best 1B in the majors in the 1970’s. The problem though is now it’s been so long that he is getting that reputation as “best player not in the HOF” - which ironically before him seemed to be a distinction held forever by Gil Hodges. I don’t know if he overcomes that or not. It would seem to make sense that he would eventually, but who knows.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

In my mind, Garvey’s mistake was all that BS with his personal life that caused his support on the writer’s ballot essentially to implode back in the 90’s and 00’s for a while when he was fresher in everyone’s collective memories. Once he moved on to the various iterations of the VC and “era” committees, sabermetrics had become a thing, and his shortcomings in certain career stats to me at least anyway seemed a lot more obvious.

For starters before you even get to that, he’s a 1B with less than 300 career HR. Most typical HOF 1B have power figures way beyond that. Only 38 career WAR and a .329 OBP don’t help him much either.

If it were up to me, I’d put him in; I’m for a (slightly anyway) “larger” Hall. Garvey certainly has the hardware accolades (An MVP, 10x AS, 4 GG, an AS MVP, an LCS MVP…) and there is at least a decent argument that he was the best 1B in the majors in the 1970’s. The problem though is now it’s been so long that he is getting that reputation as “best player not in the HOF” - which ironically before him seemed to be a distinction held forever by Gil Hodges. I don’t know if he overcomes that or not. It would seem to make sense that he would eventually, but who knows. Not starting until age 27 obviously hurt Bob Johnson, and probably doom him forever to hall of very good.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think maybe Garvey initially suffered because of his personal baggage and now it's pretty easy to make the No case based on advanced metrics. But there's no denying that in the day, the consensus was that he was an elite player, and there is certainly support for that perception, including 6 straight 200 hit seasons.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

+1

Parker finished in the top 20 in MVP voting 9 times, Baines 4 times. Parker was in the top 10 6 times, winning once. Baines only made one appearance in the top 10 and that was a 9th place finish.

Parker was top 5 five times and is 38th all time in MVP shares. Harold Baines is 673rd.

[brian1961]

The Baseball Hall of Fame had better put Dick Allen, and NOT Richie or Rich, on his plaque. That's the way Dick would want it. I know he's not around to say, but addressing him as Dick is what the man always wanted, in essentially the same way as Clemente always preferred Roberto.

I just wish Dick had lived long enough to see this day, and be at Cooperstown for his official enshrinement. Sadly, Dick's not the first, and won't be the last. --- Brian Powell

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Dave Parker makes Harold Baines look like a first ballot HOF selection.

My point, which could have been more elegant I guess, was to point out neither had a HOF career.

[Mungo Hungo]

Originally Posted by toppcat

My point, which could have been more elegant I guess, was to point out neither had a HOF career.

Maybe not, but Parker sure looked like a HOFer in the 70s. At the end of his first five seasons as a full-time starter, he was a superstar, right up there with Brett and the other players who broke in at around the same time.

I don't remember anyone every saying that Baines was a superstar ... because he just wasn't. If you take the best five individual years from the two players combined, arguably all five would be by Parker. Only one by Baines (1984) even merits consideration.

[bcbgcbrcb]

For all of the people who support Mattingly for election to the Hall (seems to me that at least as many as supported Parker) based on his peak 5 or so year run, Parker was only slightly less dominant during his mid-late 70's peak but following his ugly last few seasons in Pittsburgh, he went on to have nearly a decade of very productive numbers elsewhere while Mattingly pretty much fell off the face of the earth after his peak years. Yeah, he was injured, but that's part of his career as well.

The Cobra was my childhood favorite ballplayer and thrilled to finally see him get in after nearly 30 years of waiting.

[ALBB]

I think both were very good players. But neither HOF worthy

[jsfriedm]

There's no way they keep Andruw Jones or Jim Edmonds or even Dale Murphy out of the HOF if Dave Parker is in.

[Mozzie22]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

There's no way they keep Andruw Jones or Jim Edmonds or even Dale Murphy out of the HOF if Dave Parker is in.

This.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Murphy is a good candidate who played during mostly the same era and had similar peak numbers to Parker but the Cobra far outperforms him for aggregate “rest of career” seasons. Also, Murthy’s teams never won anything, a big detractor against his case. Edmonds & Jones were both steroid-era guys when the game’s offensive numbers were much different than they were in the 70’s and early-mid 80’s. Don’t think either comes close to measuring up to Parker.

[KJA]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

There's no way they keep Andruw Jones or Jim Edmonds or even Dale Murphy out of the HOF if Dave Parker is in.

I think Jones goes in before he is off the ballot, the 10 gold gloves will get him in.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

There's no way they keep Andruw Jones or Jim Edmonds or even Dale Murphy out of the HOF if Dave Parker is in.

Disagree. It doesn't work that way. Baines has been in for years, all three of those guys were better than Baines, but hasn't gotten them in. Each player is his own thing.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

There's no way they keep Andruw Jones or Jim Edmonds or even Dale Murphy out of the HOF if Dave Parker is in.

I agree. Dale Murphy was the best player in baseball at his prime. The back to back MVPs does it for me. And Andruw Jones? The guy hit over 400 home runs and is the best defensive center fielder in history. 10 straight gold gloves? DWar was double that of Willie Mays and Roberto Clemente.